Temporary Greens

[Tim Martin]

“Temporaries” are primarily a function of private clubs as you won’t get many players willing to pay a daily fee if the actual greens are closed. In southern New England we are very near the end of the season although some clubs will close their greens and install “temporaries” in an effort to extend things for those that are interested. Despite my affliction for the game temporary greens have never interested me and I segue to regular walking for exercise. What say you?

[archie_struthers]

 


Unlike Philadelphia, just an hour due west the greens at the Jersey Shore tend to have lighter soils and less need to shut down in the winter. That's why George Crump and his cronies would get on the train and travel to Atlantic City CC to play golf in the winter. Without heavy soils and snow cover we might not have Pine Valley!


As. you might expect heavier soils hold water and some courses opt to keep traffic off the wet greens for a few months in the off season. Would think that this could certainly be limited to low lying areas and not all greens would need any closing. But that varies course to course depending on demand and philosophy (money $)


If there are temporaries and we still want to compete the rule would be to putt it out with automatic two putts inside the circle. If you stiff one you can still get rewarded !


As a rule don't like temps but sometimes they are a necessity.

[Tim Martin]

Unlike Philadelphia, just an hour due west the greens at the Jersey Shore tend to have lighter soils and less need to shut down in the winter. That's why George Crump and his cronies would get on the train and travel to Atlantic City CC to play golf in the winter. Without heavy soils and snow cover we might not have Pine Valley!


As. you might expect heavier soils hold water and some courses opt to keep traffic off the wet greens for a few months in the off season. Would think that this could certainly be limited to low lying areas and not all greens would need any closing. But that varies course to course depending on demand and philosophy (money $)


If there are temporaries and we still want to compete the rule would be to putt it out with automatic two putts inside the circle. If you stiff one you can still get rewarded !


As a rule don't like temps but sometimes they are a necessity.

Archie-The climate is such on the Jersey Shore that you could go back to regular greens after a period of temps. Once the temps come out in Connecticut and Massachusetts you won’t get regular greens at private clubs until the following season. I missed getting to the Jersey Shore this year as it’s one of my favorite places and I’m hoping to get down after the New Year for some golf and chow.

[archie_struthers]

 


Maybe we can schedule something in Jan or Feb for a bunch of stir crazy east coasters! Maybe even a Crump day at ACCC for us history buffs. Sure that Cirba and Bausch would have tons to share.


Lets see how the Covid curves and pray the vaccines come soon!

[MCirba]

Archie/Tim,

Here Hear!!   

[Tommy Williamsen]

I forgot that some courses in the north go to temp greens. I can't remember any private course doing that in MD or VA.

[Jim Sherma]

That's one that could get me to make the trek from Central Pennsyl-tucky.


living in PA almost my whole life the occasional temp green is the cost of playing through the winter. A course full of them would get me to play elsewhere, but one or two as needed is fine.


Hershey East is kept open through the winter and there is one green that just does not get enough sun in the winter so they close and cover it. Makes a difference in the spring and early summer after re-opening it.

[SL_Solow]

Would that the climate in Chicago made for play even with temporary greens

[Tim Martin]

Would love to see all you guys this Winter and get updated on the goings on at Cobbs Creek from Mike and Joe.

[Mark_Fine]

We have temporary greens at Brookside CC outside Philadelphia but that is because we are doing a renovation.  It is amazing how many golfers still enjoy playing especially on a nice day.  I think they also like to see the work underway. Temp greens are very common in this part of the world so maybe golfers are just used to them. 

[Terry Lavin]

Would that the climate in Chicago made for play even with temporary greens

We might have 20 foursomes for a 3-club Scramble at Beverly on Saturday. Pandemic golf continues.

[Duncan Cheslett]

The vast majority of courses in my part of north-western England mark out temporary greens in the autumn. Generally though, they are only actually used a few times over the winter when there is a deep frost. In recent years this has been on maybe two or three mornings per year. I imagine that on the much colder eastern side of the country "temps" are used more often.


No-one likes temporary greens but they are a necessary evil. It's better than closing the course.

[Thomas Dai]

Temps with holes (standard size or bigger?) in the ground or a flag set within a base of some kind (eg a log) sitting above the ground? Seen and played both sorts.
The former is more permanent, especially if the ground is frozen, and over time can result in scruffy areas around it which can last until the new season commences. The latter isn’t a ‘hole’ in the purest sense rather more of a ‘target’ and although it can be moved around easier it can also be knocked or blown over.
Have folks played both, are there more versions (?) and if so which do folks prefer?

Atb

[Tim Martin]

The version I am familiar with is always a hole but bigger.

[Scott Senior]

I would would make the drive south for a Crump Day at ACCC if that happened!! Please let me know.

[Pete Lavallee]

Our municipal course in Southeastern Mass. would cut the holes in the very front of the green and leave them there all winter long. I suspect this helped protect the rest of the green. We still played if there wasn’t snow on the ground; hey football doesn’t start until 1:00! Playing on frozen ground was different, the guys who could hit it low did quite well, a high 9 iron could bounce in almost any direction when it landed. You could not get a tee in the ground so we would use the upside down caps of quart bottles for tees.

[Phil Burr]

Living in New England for 20 years temporaries were a useful way to keep a course open later and to open it for those occasionally late-winter warm spells that made everyone itch to get out and play, but with a return to sub-freezing temps and additional snowfall still inevitable.  I remember going down to Shennescosset or Fenwick on those wonderful days.


On the other hand, I played a prominent Florida course (former PGA tour host) about 30 years ago during its high season with six temporary greens.  No mention was made when I booked tee time, no reduction in green fee was offered, and the resort invoked its 24-hour cancellation requirement so I couldn’t get my money back.  All six temps were set 150 yards off the tee, mown only barely below fairway height, and were 20-30 feet in diameter with a bucket hole placed dead center.  Perhaps the worst golfing experience of my life, spending $125 to play what amounted to a shaggy executive course, but one whose name apparently justified their arrogance.

[Andrew Harvie]

I played a golf course in Vancouver called Seymour this October, and my host was telling me that they have "frost" greens so that if they have a frost delay they can still go and play on the frost greens (basically just temp greens) and the tee sheet doesn't get backed up. Sunlight in Vancouver in December is basically from 8AM-4PM, so they really have to squeeze in lots of people to golf, especially this winter with nobody being able to go south.


I thought it was a cool idea but I also don't understand how it worked because I thought walking on fairways when there's frost is still bad?


Anyways, I probably wouldn't play a golf course if they had temp greens. It's necessary, but a huge part of golf and golf courses for me is the actual putting surfaces, so I feel it'd just take the wind out of my sail.

[Kalen Braley]

In the Spokane area, they would leave one public course open in the Winter and play on 18 temporaries, and it was just fine as far as we were concerned.  And yes, even thou I wouldn't do it now, we played a few rounds in 20-25 degree weather...

[Tim Martin]

In the Spokane area, they would leave one public course open in the Winter and play on 18 temporaries, and it was just fine as far as we were concerned.  And yes, even thou I wouldn't do it now, we played a few rounds in 20-25 degree weather...

Kalen-Were you getting starting times and paying a greens fee or was it just show up and play gratis with everything shut down? There’s an old saying I like to go by-“No Pin-No Pay.”

[Kalen Braley]

In the Spokane area, they would leave one public course open in the Winter and play on 18 temporaries, and it was just fine as far as we were concerned.  And yes, even thou I wouldn't do it now, we played a few rounds in 20-25 degree weather...

Kalen-Were you getting starting times and paying a greens fee or was it just show up and play gratis with everything shut down? There’s an old saying I like to go by-“No Pin-No Pay.”

It was a combination.  No starting times, just show up...and I can't recall it ever being a problem.  But there was a guy in the clubhouse to take your money and ask if you wanted a cart, and we'd be like "hell no".  When its that cold you gotta walk to make it bearable! 

P.S.  We did play the 2 putt pick up rule on the temps, but they were tiny and every now and then you'd get lucky and hole it on the first go.  The times it was tricky was when the green was frozen over and it'd be near impossible to stop it near the hole!

[Tim Martin]

In the Spokane area, they would leave one public course open in the Winter and play on 18 temporaries, and it was just fine as far as we were concerned.  And yes, even thou I wouldn't do it now, we played a few rounds in 20-25 degree weather...

Kalen-Were you getting starting times and paying a greens fee or was it just show up and play gratis with everything shut down? There’s an old saying I like to go by-“No Pin-No Pay.”

It was a combination.  No starting times, just show up...and I can't recall it ever being a problem.  But there was a guy in the clubhouse to take your money and ask if you wanted a cart, and we'd be like "hell no".  When its that cold you gotta walk to make it bearable! 

P.S.  We did play the 2 putt pick up rule on the temps, but they were tiny and every now and then you'd get lucky and hole it on the first go.  The times it was tricky was when the green was frozen over and it'd be near impossible to stop it near the hole!

The frozen bounces add a whole different dimension to the game.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Nae to temporary Greens, zero interest for me.
Yea to a winter GCA Jersey shore event at ACCC or Seaview. Will get a posse down from Princeton, NJ!

[Sean_A]

I hate temp greens, but that is mostly due crap quality. If clubs know that courses will stay open in winter they should plan and prepare the temp greens far better. Temps can be fun if done right. That said, my club doesn't do temps. We play on frosty greens. I haven't noticed any lasting damage over the years.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

In the Scottish climate, I grew up when every inland course remained open all year with 5-6 months on temporary greens.


For me, that was the greatest advantage of the USGA green construction becoming more prevalent: Suddenly courses could play on their permanent greens for 11 or 12 months. It was impossible to do this with push-up, native soil poa greens.