No holes between 350 and 440

[Matt_Cohn]

Is Augusta the only course of any significance in the world with that statistic?

[Tom_Doak]

I suspect not.  Many modern tournament courses have bumped up the yardages of the par-4's wherever possible.  Did Winged Foot even have one?  [Maybe the 11th doesn't have room to lengthen.]

[Matt_Cohn]

I suspect not.  Many modern tournament courses have bumped up the yardages of the par-4's wherever possible.  Did Winged Foot even have one?  [Maybe the 11th doesn't have room to lengthen.]

11 was 384, also 15 was 426.

[BCrosby]

That is roughly true of Merion. It has relatively few middle length par 4's. Also par 3's are either short or very long.


Bob

[Matt_Cohn]

That is roughly true of Merion. It has relatively few middle length par 4's. Also par 3's are either short or very long.

From the regular back tees, Merion has ten holes between 350 and 440. From the US Open tees it has six of them.

[Tom_Doak]

Memorial Park only had two holes in that range -- the 13th and 17th -- and both of them were only because the Tour wanted back tees so that they would not be drivable and slow down play on Thursday or Friday.  I did also have the 5th hole in that in-between range -- but they added a tee to take it up to 440. 


Mr. Dye was a big believer in making the par-4's either short or long, but usually he had his opening hole as kind of a tweener.

[Sean_A]

Is Augusta the only course of any significance in the world with that statistic?

Well, for me, it's often the case that courses have far too many holes in the 340ish to 390ish range. But none is a bit harsh.

Ciao

[Tal Oz]

Rustic Canyon from the blacks VERY nearly fits the bill. 7 from back there is listed at 362 but as the crow flies it’s 344 and it’s not really a dogleg.


Par 4 yardages:
2 457
3 315
7 362
11 452
12 336
14 498
16 479
18 456

[Matthew Rose]

Perfect opportunity to shorten #7 about 50 yards

[Thomas Dai]

Well, for me, it's often the case that courses have far too many holes in the 340ish to 390ish range. But none is a bit harsh.

...... and too many 160-190 yd par-3's.
atb

[Colin Sheehan]

Every par four at Yale is between those two numbers. The 4th is listed as 440. Maybe the 14th hole is 340.

[Jim_Coleman]

Torresdale Frankfort comes close.

[Matt_Cohn]

Rustic Canyon from the blacks VERY nearly fits the bill. 7 from back there is listed at 362 but as the crow flies it’s 344 and it’s not really a dogleg.


Par 4 yardages:
2 457
3 315
7 362
11 452
12 336
14 498
16 479
18 456

Wow, good call. 362 to 452 is just as notable.

[Jim Hoak]

Matt, this statistic fits in with the idea that half-pars are often the most fun pars--so you would have a lot of 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 pars here instead of 4's.

[Carl Rogers]

IMO, ANGC, Hole 3 has become the most interesting hole on the course.

[Tom_Doak]

IMO, ANGC, Hole 3 has become the most interesting hole on the course.

It has always been a super awkward hole, to play or to look at.  Doubt I would ever build a hole like it.

[jeffwarne]

IMO, ANGC, Hole 3 has become the most interesting hole on the course.

It has always been a super awkward hole, to play or to look at.  Doubt I would ever build a hole like it.

The hole was better when it was all short grass and before Jack's bunker work in the 70's.
If they restored the fairway left and perhaps lost a bunker or two, or three it would work better,
I think it plays pretty well(more varied and interesting) now that the layup isn't automatic as it once was.


If you had to get from 2 green to 4 tee, what would you do different in that space Tom?

[Matthew Rose]

I always thought that cluster of four could be replaced with a MacKenzie style single centerline bunker and it might look cool.

I never understood why they built those four. It looks odd.

[Carl Rogers]

IMO, ANGC, Hole 3 has become the most interesting hole on the course.

It has always been a super awkward hole, to play or to look at.  Doubt I would ever build a hole like it.

We might be saying one in the same thing

[Jim Sherma]

I like this type of routing as an ideal.


Something ideal for me would be the following:


3 short par 3's (105-120)
2 long par 3's (185-230)
5 long par 4's (440-480 depending on slope)
3 short par 4's (280-320)
2 short par 5's (485-510)
2 long par 5's (570-600)
1 mid par 4 (340-380)


This gets us to par 71 and somewhere around 6,300
9 long approach shots (5 long par 4's, both second shots on the short 5's and the 2 long par 3's) 
8 short approach shots net of driving the short par 4's (3 short par 3's, 3 short par 4's and 2 3rd shots on long par 5's)
1 mid to short approach shot on the mid par 4


Basically a course that rewards scoring club play and long-iron/hybrid/fairway wood play. Limits total yardage and required acreage while keeping the walk on the shorter side. Some of the least interesting routings IMO are shorter older courses with a load of par 4's in the 340-400 range.

[Eric LeFante]

IMO, ANGC, Hole 3 has become the most interesting hole on the course.

It has always been a super awkward hole, to play or to look at.  Doubt I would ever build a hole like it.

Because it is too difficult for everyday play?