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Mike Bodo

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Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« on: November 10, 2020, 08:23:56 PM »
Does having the Masters played in November as opposed to its traditional April time slot make this year's winner a less deserving champion? Considering all the factors that make this year's Masters different from all previous year's, i.e. players missing due to COVID, no crowds and thus roars from the gallery all four days, course conditions varying, no Par 3 contest (LOL!) etc. does it diminish the legitimacy of the player that wins this year? I'd argue, yes for these factors and more, but would be interested in hearing others opinion on it.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2020, 08:36:31 PM »
No. Still four rounds of medal play. Low score wins.
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Mike Bodo

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2020, 08:45:37 PM »
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 08:49:38 PM by Mike Bodo »
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John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2020, 09:00:20 PM »
I just walked past the Golf Channel doing a Masters preview with the sound off. The fact that Mathew Broderick is providing commentary is enough to nullify the tournament.
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Ira Fishman

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2020, 09:05:10 PM »
Quote from: Mike Bodo on November 10, 2020, 08:23:56 PM
Does having the Masters played in November as opposed to its traditional April time slot make this year's winner a less deserving champion? Considering all the factors that make this year's Masters different from all previous year's, i.e. players missing due to COVID, no crowds and thus roars from the gallery all four days, course conditions varying, no Par 3 contest (LOL!) etc. does it diminish the legitimacy of the player that wins this year? I'd argue, yes for these factors and more, but would be interested in hearing others opinion on it.


Ask any player.


Ira
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Peter Flory

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2020, 09:13:50 PM »
Is there an asterisk next to Byron Nelson's name for the 1945 PGA Championship? 
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Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 11
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2020, 09:22:54 PM »
Maybe Roger Maris will win?


There should be no asterisk.  Same course, same field, same hunger.
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Matthew Rose

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2020, 10:47:32 PM »
It might feel like it for a short period of time, but I think all the circumstances will eventually be forgotten in time, especially the next time there is a "normal" Masters.

In my mind a Masters champion is a Masters champion.
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Pat Burke

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2020, 10:47:44 PM »
Seems if Augusta is hosting their event they call
“The Masters”


Then the winner has won the Masters?


If Augusta calls it the NIT then I guess not
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A.G._Crockett

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2020, 08:37:11 AM »
You could make the argument that it will be tougher to win this year than any other just as easily as the argument that it will be easier.  The asterisk will be about the tournament itself, not the winner.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2020, 09:18:24 AM »
I can tell you that hockey fans asked the same question about the Stanley Cup playoffs this year, but once they started, and saw the competition levels (well, except for the Washington Capitals) that talk faded away quickly and no one thinks Tampa Bay wasn't a worth champion.


You could wonder if some team other than the favorite had won instead, and in the Masters, if some unknown happens to come through and win, there might be talk of the course not playing up to its usual in Nov. or something, but then, that underdog would always have some negative perceptions about his win (if his only major) anyway, since people look for reasons to knock others down, in all endeavors, including golf.
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Steve Lang

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2020, 09:28:37 AM »
 8)  Hey, does he get a green jacket or not and get to choose the next Champions dinner menu next time???


nuff said
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John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2020, 09:39:06 AM »
Did the NBA have a championship this year?
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PCCraig

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2020, 09:42:41 AM »
Quote from: Steve Lang on November 11, 2020, 09:28:37 AM
8)  Hey, does he get a green jacket or not and get to choose the next Champions dinner menu next time???


nuff said


Right. If they are handing out a green jacket the players will play just as hard no matter what time of year it is or how many patrons are on site. Doesn't the Masters mean more to the players because they treat past champions better than any other tournament?
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Brad Steven

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2020, 11:14:35 AM »
Does anyone feel Morikawa's win at Harding Park or DeChambeau's win at Winged Foot require an asterisk?
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Mike Bodo

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2020, 11:34:43 AM »
Quote from: Brad Steven on November 11, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
Does anyone feel Morikawa's win at Harding Park or DeChambeau's win at Winged Foot require an asterisk?
I guess we won't know if the same individuals would have won the respective tournaments had fans been present. It's quite possible Bryson may have had to put up with a degree of heckling by some in the U.S. Open galleries given he is such a lightning rod in the sport currently. If fans were giving him a hard time on the course, how would that effect his performance? Would he have become more mistake/error prone leading to higher scores and possibly losing the tournament? We'll never know. Same with Morikawa, although I tend to regard him as a cooler customer to Bryson.


I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here, but there are some in the golf world that don't view this year's major winners in the same light as those in previous years for a multitude of reasons. It's refreshing that seemingly everyone that's posted here on the subject is in agreement that the wins are no less legitimate, despite the respective tournaments being contested under unusual and less than ideal conditions vs. a "normal" year.
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Brad Steven

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2020, 11:47:30 AM »
Quote from: Mike Bodo on November 11, 2020, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: Brad Steven on November 11, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
Does anyone feel Morikawa's win at Harding Park or DeChambeau's win at Winged Foot require an asterisk?
I guess we won't know if the same individuals would have won the respective tournaments had fans been present. It's quite possible Bryson may have had to put up with a degree of heckling by some in the U.S. Open galleries given he is such a lightning rod in the sport currently. If fans were giving him a hard time on the course, how would that effect his performance? Would he have become more mistake/error prone leading to higher scores and possibly losing the tournament? We'll never know. Same with Morikawa, although I tend to regard him as a cooler customer to Bryson.


I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here, but there are some in the golf world that don't view this year's major winners in the same light as those in previous years for a multitude of reasons. It's refreshing that seemingly everyone that's posted here on the subject is in agreement that the wins are no less legitimate, despite the respective tournaments being contested under unusual and less than ideal conditions vs. a "normal" year.


Sure - all good points.  My question regarding Morikawa and DeChambeau's wins wasn't defensive, it was sincere.  For my money, there IS something that feels different about these wins so far but I think with time, as a previous poster mentioned, that will go away.  It always puzzles me when I hear "the US Open is the hardest tournament to win" ... or words to that effect.  If that's so for everyone in the field, then is it true on a relative basis?  Your comments related to DeChambeau holding up to the heckling or fan pressure at WF are valid because they apply to him alone - although I don't think that would have made the difference.


In any case, I think the players know best ... I'll bet the nerves will be jangling as much as ever late afternoon this Sunday.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2020, 11:53:29 AM »
Fuzzy's win has an asterisk. It takes a combination of events.
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Terry Lavin

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2020, 11:55:54 AM »
Everything feels different these days, but the winner shouldn’t get any kind of asterisk. It’s still going to be hard to win at Augusta, even in November and even without fans.


What should get an asterisk is “Live From the Masters.”  I’d rather get a root canal than watch/listen to this coverage.
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Matt_Cohn

  • Total Karma: 7
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2020, 11:58:50 AM »
We've already had two majors with no asterisk.
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2020, 02:04:01 PM »
Apparently there'll be no outside green jacket presentation afterwards, just the Butler Cabin TV jobbie. Maybe devalues things a bit for the winner?
atb
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Mike Bodo

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2020, 02:09:06 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on November 11, 2020, 02:04:01 PM
Apparently there'll be no outside green jacket presentation afterwards, just the Butler Cabin TV jobbie. Maybe devalues things a bit for the winner?
atb
Not only that, but they're The Master's champion for a lousy 5 months (no fault of the winner, of course). Unless the same player wins again in April their reign will be very short-lived.
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Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2020, 02:24:15 PM »
Is it 2020? ✔


Is the golf tournament being played at Augusta National? ✔


Is the field representative of past years fields? ✔


Is the tournament call The Masters? ✔


Will the winner of the tournament be given a green jacket? ✔


In ten years will the winner of the 2020 Masters be viewed any differently than the winner of the 2019, 2021, or 2022 Masters? HELL NO!
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Jeff Schley

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2020, 02:26:38 PM »
I would like to swing it back and say the opposite.  I think they could possibly accomplish a greater feat. Despite, all the craziness and scheduling with a constant health scare that all of us are subjected to. To be mentally tough enough to maintain your game and then perform and win won't be easy. When things aren't perfect and don't go your way, can you persevere?
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Steve Lang

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Re: Is this year's Masters winner a lesser Champion?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2020, 07:07:52 PM »
Jeff,


I think that's a swing and a miss.. for first three sentences. they're there, in the Master's bubble, no one seemed stressed playing practice rounds or with the press...


Your last two sentences capture the essence that's no different than any year, come the back 9 on Sunday
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Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
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