If Bryson Wins and Plays These Clubs Into Greens Will ANGC Dial Back The Ball?

[Jerry Kluger]

This article outlines what clubs Bryson DeChambeau hit into some of the greens at AGNC and I was wondering how the club will react if he wins the tournament.  Obviously, he is not playing the holes as they were designed to be played.
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/he-hit-what-heres-what-bryson-dechambeau-hit-some-augusta-nationals-greens-last-week

[Paul Rudovsky]

Would be the best thing that could happen to the game.  My guess is that it would force the USGA and R&A to do something.  I had heard that the PGA Tour was the organization fighting a ball/equipment rollback saying "we are in the entertainment business".   


If that is true, and if ANGC, USGA, and R&A all outline different regs for 3 of 4 majors, PGA Tour would drop their "we are in the entertainment business" stance and go along.  The Tour Pros will not put up with switching balls for the 3 or 4 biggest events of the year...they will demand the PGA Tour go along...

[Kalen Braley]

Hitting a 7 iron into #8 seems especially egregious considering it plays uphill and most of the field is just hoping to have any shot into the green in 2.  Perhaps they had the back tees closed?

Others like 10, 13, and 15 aren't surprising given Tiger was basically doing the same thing 20 years ago before they added all the extra length.

[Thomas Dai]

Would be the best thing that could happen to the game.  My guess is that it would force the USGA and R&A to do something.  I had heard that the PGA Tour was the organization fighting a ball/equipment rollback saying "we are in the entertainment business".   
If that is true, and if ANGC, USGA, and R&A all outline different regs for 3 of 4 majors, PGA Tour would drop their "we are in the entertainment business" stance and go along.  The Tour Pros will not put up with switching balls for the 3 or 4 biggest events of the year...they will demand the PGA Tour go along...

Difficult not to agree with premiss of the above.
And he was playing with Sandy Lyle and in his prime there weren't many longer than Sandy. And Sandy hit a lot of 1-irons from the tee.
Would love to see Bryson go for the 13th green with his tee shot. After all its only 400 yds across the corner and the ditch from the tee to the green and he posted recently that he can fly the ball that far. Go on Bryson, I dare you!
atb

[John Kavanaugh]

Are BDC's irons all the same length. Why do I care how far he hits a wedge if it's the same length as his 6 iron? I only hope that he skipped this weeks tournament because he has discovered his swing speeds are not sustainable.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Comical. 570 yards uphill. 7 iron.


To your point I could see them blocking off the champ tees until Wednesday.

Hitting a 7 iron into #8 seems especially egregious considering it plays uphill and most of the field is just hoping to have any shot into the green in 2.  Perhaps they had the back tees closed?

Others like 10, 13, and 15 aren't surprising given Tiger was basically doing the same thing 20 years ago before they added all the extra length.

[Jerry Kluger]

I was fortunate to go on Thursday 2 years ago and the wind was very strong - perhaps 20 MPH and #1 was playing into the wind and the players were really struggling with it.  15 was also playing into the wind and I was able to watch it as I sat on #16 and I cannot remember more than 1 or 2 players successfully hitting the green in 2. I believe Sergio hit #15 in 2 on Sunday with an 8 iron.  Let's see what the reaction will be of the players and journalists if Bryson goes real low on Thursday and Friday.

[cary lichtenstein]

it is really time for a tournament ball and another ball for us mortals, how about going back to balata and wooden clubs, we'd see who the best player is then

[Tim_Cronin]

The numbers from the story, putting them here for the record:
[/size]

[/size]1 (445) SW
2 (575 par 5) 8-iron
3 (350) 3-wood over green off tee
8 (570 par 5) 7-iron
9 (460) SW
10 (495) PW
11 (505) 9-iron
13 (510 par 5) 7-iron – 3-wood off tee
15 (530 par 5) 9-iron
17 (440) SW
</blockquote>[/size]</blockquote>[/size]Lengthening the course would only play into his hands.</blockquote>[/size]How about growing high rough (not that Augusta would do it) from 275 yards out to just short of the green on par-4s? Then every par-4 is a lay-up off the tee and accuracy with at least a 7-iron is desired. Now, that's hardly a great solution, but it shows how difficult the problem is. Effectively, Bryson DeChambeau has broken golf.</blockquote>

[Tom_Doak]

Bryson hasn't "broken golf."  The best he can do is to make pro golf look silly, and he's not even close to there, yet.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Bryson hasn't "broken golf."  The best he can do is to make pro golf look silly, and he's not even close to there, yet.

What more does he have to do to make it look silly?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Thomas,


Regarding the drive at the 13th, have a listen to The Drop Zone - Golf Podcast:
https://golf.com/news/jack-nicklaus-favorite-holes-changes-make-augusta-national/ (scroll to the bottom of the page)

They said Bryson plans to drive in the direction of the 14th fairway. I had a look at Google Maps and there are a number of holes where the absence of spectators will make it more acceptable to drive it wherever you want. Not having walked the property, but just by looking at the maps, he could drive as long and right as he wants at the 9th. He could also hit it as far past the fairway bunkers on the 18th.

[Andrew Harvie]

I'd be surprised if Bryson can get the launch angle to get it up that quickly on a direct line to the green on 13. That's pretty quick, especially with a 3.5* driver!

[Kalen Braley]

Bryson hasn't "broken golf."  The best he can do is to make pro golf look silly, and he's not even close to there, yet.

What more does he have to do to make it look silly?

Tommy,


I'm inclined to agree, with how far he hits the ball with his wild swings and being all beefed up, he most closely resembles an escapee from the HGH tour...

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas,
Regarding the drive at the 13th, have a listen to The Drop Zone - Golf Podcast:
https://golf.com/news/jack-nicklaus-favorite-holes-changes-make-augusta-national/ (scroll to the bottom of the page)
They said Bryson plans to drive in the direction of the 14th fairway. I had a look at Google Maps and there are a number of holes where the absence of spectators will make it more acceptable to drive it wherever you want. Not having walked the property, but just by looking at the maps, he could drive as long and right as he wants at the 9th. He could also hit it as far past the fairway bunkers on the 18th.

My post wasn't exactly serious!
Would love BDC to try to drive the green though although the trees by the tee are probably too high, but what the hell, at his speed just blast it through them (90% air and all that).
And Sandy Lyle, who BDC was playing with, apart from being a Masters and Open an TPC winner is a World Hickory Champion.
Now Sandy isn't likely to win or contend this week but wouldn't it in a sort of perverse way be rather nice if Sandy played all hickories and a replica early era ball on Thursday?
atb

[jeffwarne]

The numbers from the story, putting them here for the record:


1 (445) SW
2 (575 par 5) 8-iron
3 (350) 3-wood over green off tee
8 (570 par 5) 7-iron
9 (460) SW
10 (495) PW
11 (505) 9-iron
13 (510 par 5) 7-iron – 3-wood off tee
15 (530 par 5) 9-iron
17 (440) SW
</blockquote></blockquote>Lengthening the course would only play into his hands.</blockquote>How about growing high rough (not that Augusta would do it) from 275 yards out to just short of the green on par-4s? Then every par-4 is a lay-up off the tee and accuracy with at least a 7-iron is desired. Now, that's hardly a great solution, but it shows how difficult the problem is. Effectively, Bryson DeChambeau has broken golf.</blockquote>

Bryson does kill it, and I have my own feelings about tech..
but , let's not forget that PW is 6 iron length(5 iron in 1980) and has an 8 iron loft(circa 1980), so an 8 iron on a long shaft, so it's not like he has 120 in, or 115 as Jack's stock pw(50 degrees) distance was.
Bryson's 4 iron has the same loft as Jack's 1 iron, but is at 6 iron length.
Jack hit 8 iron into #2 in shooting 64 there in '65, back when an 8 iron went 145.(of course the tee is much farther back now)
Norman and others used to hit SW regularly into 9.
Tiger hit PW into 15 in '97
The clubs he's hitting aren't that different than bombers of previous eras, he just is coming in from greater distances after longer tee shots,from farther back tees.(where land is available-see hole #3)


#3 is a much better hole now than it was 40 years ago-Daly changed the strategy and tech piled on.
I hope BDC shoots 257

[Michael Felton]

Bryson hit 7 iron into 8. Much of the field can't reach 8. If you roll the ball back such that he is hitting 6 or 7 iron into the par 4s, then most of the field won't be able to reach them. That would make a mockery of things.


There are plenty of people out there who hit it substantially further than Bryson does. You never see them because it's REALLY hard to hit it that hard and keep it in play. Bryson, for his faults, is REALLY good. Why should we stop him?

[John Kavanaugh]

When we reach the day that someone other than an asshole refuses a round at Augusta we have a problem.

[Jerry Kluger]

Nicklaus and Player spoke out again yesterday at the Masters about dialing back the ball.  The point was made that a ball could be developed whereby the effect would be greater on players with higher club head speeds.  I had not thought about that before but I remember Fred Funk saying a number of years ago that he was not gaining nearly as much distance with the new balls when compared to some players who swung much faster than he does so it would logically follow that players who did not hit it that far would not suffer as much of a loss of distance if the ball was dialed back.
https://sports.yahoo.com/jack-nicklaus-gary-player-demand-201855147.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_04

[jeffwarne]

Nick Faldo argued against a rollback on TV today saying that if they rolled it back 20% Bernhard Langer wouldn't play in The Masters anymore.
A lot to digest there
1.20% seems like a crazy amount-a 318 Tour leading average(throwing Bryson out for a moment) would go to 254 for the distance leader.Way much unless they shortened courses considerably.  10% takes the leader to 286ish.(and Bryson would be the rightful outlier as what he's doing IS unique)
2.Presumably if they rolled the ball back courses would stay static or get shorter-certainly they'd get shorter at 20%
3.A rollback would presumably affect a slower swinger less
4. Augusta is generally firmer on tee shots than this slop fest
5. I'm not sure 63 years olds SHOULD be competitive with the world's elite in a Major (as much as I'm enjoying Bernhard and Mize)

[Steve Lang]

  not looking like this thread will survive the cut...

[Thomas Dai]

Which manufacturer will be the first to jump ship from the current ball position in the hope of acquiring some more market share?
Which manufacturer is sniffing around closest to the USGA/R&A/ANGC in the hope of getting a head start?

How watertight or conversely breakable are the ball/club contracts of the elite players?
I somehow doubt nothings going on the background.
atb

[Mike Nuzzo]

Nicklaus and Player spoke out again yesterday at the Masters about dialing back the ball.  The point was made that a ball could be developed whereby the effect would be greater on players with higher club head speeds.  I had not thought about that before but I remember Fred Funk saying a number of years ago that he was not gaining nearly as much distance with the new balls when compared to some players who swung much faster than he does so it would logically follow that players who did not hit it that far would not suffer as much of a loss of distance if the ball was dialed back.
https://sports.yahoo.com/jack-nicklaus-gary-player-demand-201855147.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=2_04

If Fred Funk hit his tee shot 200 and his friend hit it 300, after a 10% increase (of anything), Fred would hit it 220 and his friend would hit it 330.  (and vise versa for a roll back)
It is the dumbest thing in golf not to change the ball (just a tiny bit).
It is as if we had never invented shoes, we would be adding more padding & carpet to cover the earth to protect our feet.

[Lou_Duran]

Nuzzo!- And if we stopped aeronautical engineering a couple of decades after the Wright brothers- think about it, who really needs to leave the county where you were born?-  maybe you would have gone to work for the local telephone company in NJ instead of going to NASA.  Bifurcate if we must.


Oh, Jeff W, Langer has no chance.  But I am sure glad that he is able to play in the Masters and set an age record.  My game has been going downhill for a long time, but I know that if I had the stereotypical German self-discipline, that I may be able to play enjoyably for another 10 years.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I'd be surprised if Bryson can get the launch angle to get it up that quickly on a direct line to the green on 13. That's pretty quick, especially with a 3.5* driver!

Bring back the Hinkle Tree!