[Mark Kiely]

Tom just seemed to announce some sort of involvement at Sandpiper. He posted a pic of the par-3 18th on Instagram with this caption:


"Sounds like this pond will have to stay - it's potentially home to the same endangered frog that killed Bill Coore's project next door, 15 years ago. So I'm working to design around this space entirely, because am NOT ending an oceanfront golf course with a par-3 over a pond!"

Tom: Are you able/willing to share additional details?

Very exciting!

[Tom_Doak]

I drew a plan for the course back in 2009, and was pretty surprised when they called this spring and said they wanted to pursue it.  Working on a more detailed plan now, but the permit process will likely take a couple of years before we can build anything.


It is one of the tougher routings I have tackled - some pieces are locked in and others need to change.  But no point in talking about it until we find out exactly what we can or can't do.

[Mark Kiely]

Cool, thanks for the info!


Good luck!

[Pat Burke]

I drew a plan for the course back in 2009, and was pretty surprised when they called this spring and said they wanted to pursue it.  Working on a more detailed plan now, but the permit process will likely take a couple of years before we can build anything.


It is one of the tougher routings I have tackled - some pieces are locked in and others need to change.  But no point in talking about it until we find out exactly what we can or can't do.

Ahhh Tom
Best of luck!!
I love it up there, and always felt it could be something fantastic!!

[Jeff Schley]

Sandpiper has always been a diamond in the rough (rankings wise). It has a splendid setting and the ocean holes are what Torrey Pines IMO misses out on which is bringing the cliffs into play. It isn't cheap I see ($200) and has always charged a premium for it's ocean views.

I think this is a place you could do a renovation and get some more bang out of the property, not a touch up restoration. Hope it angles that way. In reference to not having 18 finish as a par 3 over a pond, isn't this blasphemy considering Garden City GC has just that?

[Adam Lawrence]

Sandpiper has always been a diamond in the rough (rankings wise). It has a splendid setting and the ocean holes are what Torrey Pines IMO misses out on which is bringing the cliffs into play. It isn't cheap I see ($200) and has always charged a premium for it's ocean views.

I think this is a place you could do a renovation and get some more bang out of the property, not a touch up restoration. Hope it angles that way. In reference to not having 18 finish as a par 3 over a pond, isn't this blasphemy considering Garden City GC has just that?

Yes, but Garden City isn't right next to the Pacific Ocean 

[Kalen Braley]

Id be curious to know if Tom cares to comment how many of the holes in his proposal will have new playing corridors?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sandpiper has great potential. There are some very good holes, some decent holes, and some dreadful holes. Its weakness is the routing. It doesn't take advantage of the cliffside holes very well. The terrain close to the ocean is pretty good but get away from the ocean and it. is pretty flat. I will be interested to see what Tom does. It needs much more than a facelift.

[Joel_Stewart]

The site at Sandpiper was until 1965 an oil refinery.  It was then declared a Superfund site due to it being a toxic mess. 


The question has never been how to maximize a routing, its more about how can they move dirt and what will the CCC and EPA allow. 


If this project ever moves forward its going to be a miracle. 

[Ronald Montesano]

For the slower wits out there (and to avoid additional questioning until the man himself decrees)

"But no point in talking about it until we find out exactly what we can or can't do."

[Tommy Williamsen]

For the slower wits out there (and to avoid additional questioning until the man himself decrees)

"But no point in talking about it until we find out exactly what we can or can't do."

Thanks, we all need a proctor to make sure we follow all his rules.

[Tim_Weiman]

The site at Sandpiper was until 1965 an oil refinery.  It was then declared a Superfund site due to it being a toxic mess. 


The question has never been how to maximize a routing, its more about how can they move dirt and what will the CCC and EPA allow. 


If this project ever moves forward its going to be a miracle.

Joel,


Thanks for your post. FYI, I might be the only GCA participant who has played Sandpiper and worked as an oil supply and trading manager on the USWC.


Honestly, I never heard about an old oil refinery on the the Sandpiper site during the time I worked in California and couldn’t make sense of it.


Why would anyone build a refinery there, I immediately thought. An oil field does exist nearby, a couple fields actually, but still, it would probably make more sense to move any crude production to refineries in LA.


Well, before I hijack the thread, I’ll mention that apparently there was a crude processing facility at this site and, as you suggest, that might not bode well for moving much dirt.


Tom Doak is absolutely right. There probably isn’t much to discuss at this point.

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:


Yes, the superintendent pulled out an aerial photo of the site from c 1930 and it was a full on oilfield !!  I was shocked to see it.  It certainly made me re-think the common reaction that they didn't make more of such a beautiful piece of land.


My 2009 plan had nine holes in the same spots (mostly due to environmental restrictions) and nine rerouted.  But we will see how it goes.

[Patrick Scanlan]

As luck would have it I played there this Thursday and noticed a meeting of some folks outdoors by the 10th tee with what appeared to be routing maps.


It’s kind of embarrassing to ask the pro to confirm if it indeed was Tom Doak you saw. Because they say, “It was, but he’s a golf course architect?” And you say “No, I know, but I like that stuff.” And then followed by, “But he was wearing a mask? How did you...” and then the pro and your new bride give you the same exact look, which is mostly pity.


We ended up playing it three times in our stay in SB. While the creek bed and pond might pose challenges, I’m thrilled to see what can be done with the property.

[Matt_Cohn]

Just to throw some predictions out there, I'm assuming holes that stay in the same corridor include 1 (get the road-adjacent land out of the way), 6 (it's a par 3 on a cliff, not sure why it would go away), and 10-13. I don't know what the other 3 would be. My guess is that the 450 yards of cliff used by hole #14 get divided up differently.


I also predict that 18 green will not be an island in the currently-existing lake. 

[Bill Brightly]

Probably not much point in discussing this further. Then again, I nominate this site for the next Armchair Architect Contest! 

[Tommy Williamsen]

I really enjoyed holes 9-12. I will be curious to see what Tom does along the ocean.

[Peter Pallotta]

....I will be curious to see what Tom does along the ocean.

Reminds me of the wonderful Coen Brothers’ film “Barton Fink”, when the serious-minded New York playwright is grappling with his first Hollywood assignment, and the philistine who’s producing the film shouts: “Fink! It’s Wallace Beery. A wrestling picture. What do you need, a roadmap?!”

Which is to say: “It’s Doak. On the ocean. What do you think, it’s gonna be less than great?!”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VN54kkl_nTI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0CrSOPGvblI

[Ronald Montesano]

Preacher, proctor, what's the difference?

[Ronald Montesano]

my eyes would be all over that practice range in the middle. so much room there to rework the non-coastal.


keep 18 as is, but turn it into the 13th hole. Give a nice 4-hole loop for those who might like such a thing.


work out to the water from the new 13th green.


i love the 15th hole as is. hope it remains.

[David Ober]

I drew a plan for the course back in 2009, and was pretty surprised when they called this spring and said they wanted to pursue it.  Working on a more detailed plan now, but the permit process will likely take a couple of years before we can build anything.


It is one of the tougher routings I have tackled - some pieces are locked in and others need to change.  But no point in talking about it until we find out exactly what we can or can't do.

Likewise. Really love that place. I just needs a refresh. I love 10, 11, and 13 on the back. Great holes.


Ahhh Tom
Best of luck!!
I love it up there, and always felt it could be something fantastic!!

[Kalen Braley]

It certainly remains to be seen how it will work out...even if the CCC says OK:


"One course where I beat my head against the wall trying to find a better solution is Sandpiper, just north of Santa Barbara.  It's got just as much frontage on the ocean as Pacific Dunes does, and better weather, but it's nowhere near the golf course.  A lot of that is because the inland parts are not beautiful sand dunes as in Oregon, but the coastal holes do not get as much bang out of the coastline as you'd expect.  I tried for quite a while to find a better solution, but eventually gave up on it.  Maybe someone smarter than me will figure it out someday, but then they would have to get the California Coastal Commission to say okay to it."


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67916.msg1625234.html#msg1625234

[Matthew Petersen]

Just to throw some predictions out there, I'm assuming holes that stay in the same corridor include 1 (get the road-adjacent land out of the way), 6 (it's a par 3 on a cliff, not sure why it would go away), and 10-13. I don't know what the other 3 would be. My guess is that the 450 yards of cliff used by hole #14 get divided up differently.


I also predict that 18 green will not be an island in the currently-existing lake. 

#14 might be my least favorite hole that I've played in CA.

[David Ober]

Just to throw some predictions out there, I'm assuming holes that stay in the same corridor include 1 (get the road-adjacent land out of the way), 6 (it's a par 3 on a cliff, not sure why it would go away), and 10-13. I don't know what the other 3 would be. My guess is that the 450 yards of cliff used by hole #14 get divided up differently.


I also predict that 18 green will not be an island in the currently-existing lake. 

#14 might be my least favorite hole that I've played in CA.

I would enjoy the hole (a bit) if the fairway weren't so severely canted making so many tee shots roll into the left rough.


As is, I definitely agree with you.

[Tom_Doak]

"Maybe someone smarter than me will figure it out someday, but then they would have to get the California Coastal Commission to say okay."



Kalen:


As it turns out, they had a half dozen architects do plans for the property, and decided that mine was the most practical solution.  But I'm still grinding away on it, thinking there ought to be a better solution for the current 5-6-7.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()