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Jeff Schley

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Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« on: October 22, 2020, 12:48:37 PM »
Not to thread jack 2 other Biarritz hole threads, wanted to start this as a catalog of all existing Biarritz golf holes as of 2020. I was amazed some say they have played 50 and thought are there really that many?  I'll update this alphabetically and then itemize out par 4/5 separately.  I'll start with some I know of and consulted Andy Johnson's article on Biarritz holes, which isn't maybe around 20. What others do you know of?

I added state and designer. Any mistakes please let me know.
UPDATED Through Post #74
Par 3
Ballyshear Links, Thailand - #8Gil Hanse
Black Creek, TN - #17Brian Silva
Blind Brook, NY - #3Seth Raynor
Blue Mound, WI - #3Seth Raynor
Cabot Links, Canada - #2Ron Whitman
Camargo, OH - #8Seth Raynor
Cavalier Golf, VA - #5Charles Banks
CC of Charleston, SC - #6Seth Raynor
Chicago Golf, IL - #3CB Macdonald
Course at Yale, CT - #9Seth Raynor
Creek Club, NY - #11CB Macdonald
Cruden Bay St. Olaf's, Scotland - #9Tom Morris
Dedham Polo Club, MA - #14Seth Raynor
Elkridge, MD - #13Seth Raynor
Fishers Island, NY - #5Seth Raynor
Forest Park Redbud, MO - #6Robert Foulis
Forsgate, NJ - #17Charles Banks
Fox Chapel, PA - #17Seth Raynor
Francis Byrne, NJ - #2Charles Banks
Greenbriar Old White, WV - #3CB Macdonald
Hackensack GC, NJ - #3Charles Banks
Heron Lakes-Great Blue, OR - #11Robert Trent Jones Jr.
Hillcrest CC, CA - #12Kyle Phillips
Keene Run, KY - #13Foster/Rodgers
Knoll GC West, NJ - #13Charles Banks
Links at Perry Cabin, MD - #7Pete Dye
Loch Llyod CC, MO - #11Tom Watson
Lone Oak, TX - #9Jeff Brauer
Lookout Mountain, GA - #4Seth Raynor
Lyman Orchards GC Apple 9, CT - #3Mark Mungeam
Man O' War Course, MD - #9Joe Weiman
Mid Ocean Club, Ber. - #13CB Macdonald
Midland Hills, MN - #12Seth Raynor
Minnesota Valley, MN - #11Seth Raynor
Mount Prospect, IL - #16David Esler
Mountain Lake, FL - #5Seth Raynor
North Shore CC, NY - #5Seth Raynor
Ohoopee Match Club, GA - #13Gil Hanse
Old Macdonald, OR - #8Tom Doak
Piping Rock, NY - #9CB Macdonald
Royal Golf Club, Bahrain - #16Montgomerie/Hiseman
Sand Creek Station, KS - #4Jeff Brauer
Sandbox, WI - #8Coore & Crenshaw
Shoreacres, IL - #6Seth Raynor
Sleepy Hollow, NY - #7CB Macdonald
Somerset CC, MN - #12Seth Raynor
Southhampton, NY - #14Seth Raynor
St. Louis, MO - #2CB Macdonald
Stonebridge, NY - #7George Bahto
Streamsong Red, FL - #16Coore & Crenshaw
Sweetgrass GC, MI - #12Albanese/Lutzke
Tamarack CC, CT - #12Charles Banks
The Wilderness, TX - #7Jeff Brauer
Venetian Golf and River Club, FL - #11Chip Powell
Weeks Park, TX - #17Jeff Brauer
Westhampton, NY - #17Seth Raynor
Whippoorwill, NY - #8Charles Banks
Wildernerss at Fortune Bay, MN - #5Jeff Brauer
Yeamans Hall, SC - #16Seth Raynor
Par 4

 
CC of Florida, FL - #10Lester George
Eagle Glen, CA - #15Baird/Eckenrode
Highlands Reserve, FL - #16Mike Dasher
Lakewood CC, NJ - #3Walter Travis??
Langdon Farms, OR - #12Cupp/Fought
Lookout Point CC, Canada - #6Walter Travis
Loop at Forest Dunes Black, MI - #16Tom Doak
Minnesota Valley, MN - #16Seth Raynor
North Berwick, Scotland #16Lost to time
Peacock Gap, CA - #7Forrest Richardson
River Vale, NJ - #2Orrin Smith
Rolling Hills CC, CA - #10David McLay Kidd
Saucon Valley Old, PA - #12Strong/Maxwell
Somerset Hills, NJ #13AW Tillinghast
StoneRidge, MN  - ??? ??Bobby Weed
Sweetens Cove, TN - #8Rob Collins
TPC River Highlands, CT - #15Bobby Weed
Vasatorps TC, Sweden - #1Steve Forrest
Wexford, SC - #16Byrd/Palmer
Windswept Dunes, FL - #10Doug O'Rourke
Par 5
 
 
Arcadia Bluffs, MI - #5Warren Henderson
Cabot Cliffs, Canada - #8Coore & Crenshaw
Forest Oaks, NC - #11Davis Love III
Glen Mills, PA - #15Bobby Weed
Loop at Forest Dunes Red, MI - #2Tom Doak
Meadowbrook, MI - #17Andy Staples
National Pines, Canada - #14Tom McBroom
Old Elm, IL - #6Harry Colt
Santa Ana CC, CA - #8Jay Blasi
« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 06:04:04 AM by Jeff Schley »
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 01:11:37 PM »
Cavalier G & CC, Virginia Beach, Designed by Charles Banks 5th Hole
Stonebridge GL, Smithtown, NY Designed by George Bahto 7th Hole
Mount Prospect GC, Mount Prospect, IL Designed by David Esler, 16th Hole
Streamsong Red, Designed by Coore & Crenshaw, 16th Hole

The Knoll West Course, Boonton, NJ Designed by Charles Banks 13th Hole

Stonebridge GL, Smithtown, NY Designed by George Bahto 7th Hole
Mount Prospect GC, Mount Prospect, IL  Designed by 16th Hole
Streamsong Resort - Red Course Designed by Coore & Crenshaw 16th hole
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 01:49:13 PM by Chris_Blakely »
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Tim Martin

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 01:28:00 PM »


CC of Charleston 6
Francis Byrne GC 2
Hackensack GC 3
Dedham Polo Club 14
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 07:21:16 AM by Tim Martin »
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 01:35:01 PM »
Old Mac #8
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Brian Finn

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 01:36:13 PM »
Black Creek #17 - 243 Yards - Par 3
Chattanooga, TN

Designed by Brian Silva
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New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Adam G

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 01:48:17 PM »
Hillcrest CC (Los Angeles) #12
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Morgan Clawson

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 01:49:21 PM »
12 at Midland Hills, MN
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Matt Dupre

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2020, 01:51:36 PM »
Forsgate 11 (I think...)
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2020, 02:31:23 PM »
Langdon Farms

#12 Par 4   446  399  260
Cupp/Fought 1994?
Aurora, OR


Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mtn, GA
4th hole 220
Raynor/Silva


Yale
New Haven, CT
#9  213, 196 166
Ch Banks 1925
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 02:39:26 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2020, 03:39:17 PM »
From my portfolio:


No. 5 at Wilderness at Fortune Bay, Tower, MN
No. 7 at The Wilderness, Lake Jackson, TX
No 17 at Weeks Park Golf Club, Wichita Falls, TX

No. 4 at Sand Creek Station, Newton, KS (sideways)
No. 9 at Lone Oak Golf Club, Lone Oak, TX (most likely NLE)
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adam T

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 09:51:40 PM »
#11 at Forest Oaks in Greensboro, NC has a Biarritz green at the end of a Par 5. Non-traditional, but actually a blast to play. With a long iron or fairway metal in hand, the effect on the going for the green in two is similar.
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Keith Phillips

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2020, 09:55:08 PM »
Just checking...which hole is #15 at Montclair?
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Chris Mavros

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2020, 10:12:22 PM »
Somerset CC - Fifteenth par 3


Also, Glen Mills Fifteenth par 5


And Rolling Hills CC, Tenth par 4


Sweetens Cove, Eighth par 3
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:34:52 PM by Chris Mavros »
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Paul Rudovsky

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2020, 10:40:31 PM »
Par 4---#8 at Old Elm (IL) double green shared with Redan par 3 #17...woops sorry it is the PAR 5 6th hole that has the Biarritz dip and shares the green with the par 3 17th Redan
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:49:51 PM by Paul Rudovsky »
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Bill Brightly

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2020, 10:52:03 PM »
Saucon Valley Old Course Hole 12, a par 4, has a Biarritz-type green. What is interesting is that the 12th hole was built as a par 3 by Herbert Strong in the 20's. Perry Maxwell worked on the course in the 1950's and converted the par 4 11th into a drop down par 3, and made the 12th int a dogleg par 4. So I'm wondering if Strong built this hole as a Biarritz par 3, and Maxwell converted it into a par 4, leaving the swale-style green?
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Tim Martin

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2020, 10:54:38 PM »
Quote from: Keith Phillips on October 22, 2020, 09:55:08 PM
Just checking...which hole is #15 at Montclair?


Keith-I’m asking Jeff Schley to remove # 14 at Montclair GC. Th confusion is on my part for which I apologize.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 07:17:32 AM by Tim Martin »
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Paul Rudovsky

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2020, 10:57:40 PM »
Blind Brook #3 (Par 3)
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2020, 11:02:05 PM »
Somerset CC in MN. Par three twelfth.
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Chris Mavros

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2020, 11:04:34 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on October 22, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
Somerset CC in MN. Par three twelfth.


The Twelfth is the par 5 Road Hole.  The Biarritz is the Fifteenth.  A nice subtle one I enjoyed a lot. 
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Paul Rudovsky

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2020, 11:13:47 PM »
IMO this is a wonderful thread.  When it is completed we should create a list of all.  Then I think the next questions are:

1.  where is the present dip (in the "middle" of there green) or just short of the front edge of the green?
2.  approximately what year did the Biarritz hole open (e.g. 1926 I think for Yale)?
3.  when the course first opened (for courses where the Biarritz hole opened before say 1960), where was the dip when the course opened?

I have a very strong sense that the answer to #3 will be "just short of the front edge of the green" for almost all courses built with involvement by CBM and/or Raynor.  For example, it the men's locker room at Deal (Royal Cinque Ports), there is a photo of #9 at Yale and the inscriptions says it was taken on opening day in 1925 or 1926.  It the very very clear from that photo that  on the back part of the green behind the dip the cup pattern is a "cross-hatch" and the cup pattern short of the dip and in the dip is only "back and forth".

My guess is that the answer to my question #1 will be about 80-90% dip in the "middle" of the green...and for the old holes, it will be clear that at some point, the green front was extended well forward.
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Carl Rogers

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2020, 11:50:41 PM »
Hole 8 at Sweetens Cove is a par 4.  Hole 9 is a par 3 with one of the most extreme greens in North America.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2020, 12:08:16 AM »
Quote from: Chris Mavros on October 22, 2020, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on October 22, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
Somerset CC in MN. Par three twelfth.


The Twelfth is the par 5 Road Hole.  The Biarritz is the Fifteenth.  A nice subtle one I enjoyed a lot.


I just checked the scorecard. Twelve is 233 par three.
Interesting. I checked another scorecard that agrees with you.
It’s been twenty years since I played there.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:48:22 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff Schley

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2020, 07:29:47 AM »
Quote from: Tim Martin on October 22, 2020, 10:54:38 PM
Quote from: Keith Phillips on October 22, 2020, 09:55:08 PM
Just checking...which hole is #15 at Montclair?


Keith-I’m asking Jeff Schley to remove # 14 at Montclair GC. Th confusion is on my part for which I apologize.
Done. Keep the fact checking coming. If there are mistakes please let me know.
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Jeff Schley

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2020, 07:32:41 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on October 22, 2020, 03:39:17 PM
From my portfolio:


No. 5 at Wilderness at Fortune Bay, Tower, MN
No. 7 at The Wilderness, Lake Jackson, TX
No 17 at Weeks Park Golf Club, Wichita Falls, TX

No. 4 at Sand Creek Station, Newton, KS (sideways)
No. 9 at Lone Oak Golf Club, Lone Oak, TX (most likely NLE)
Jeff quite a healthy portfolio. I saw Weeks Park and was a throwback. I coached football at Midwestern State Univ there in 1997 and played there quite a bit. Sadly don't recall any holes as that was pre GCA enlightenment days where we were looking for a cheap place to golf and have fun.  Fit the bill.
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"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
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Chris Mavros

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Re: Biarritz Holes - A catalog 2020
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2020, 10:00:42 AM »
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on October 23, 2020, 12:08:16 AM
Quote from: Chris Mavros on October 22, 2020, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on October 22, 2020, 11:02:05 PM
Somerset CC in MN. Par three twelfth.


The Twelfth is the par 5 Road Hole.  The Biarritz is the Fifteenth.  A nice subtle one I enjoyed a lot.


I just checked the scorecard. Twelve is 233 par three.
Interesting. I checked another scorecard that agrees with you.
It’s been twenty years since I played there.


Ah that makes sense.  I think they've changed the routing a couple times.  I played it last summer, so hopefully still the same as then. 
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