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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2020, 04:25:31 PM »
Calgary, as people all over the planet are quick to point out, is home to the Calgary Stampede. Other than the 1988 Winter Olympics (widely considered one of the best in history), the Stampede is the trademark of the town. This massive summer rodeo and western-themed festival is dubbed “The Greatest Outdoor Show on Earth.” Sadly, due to the Covid-19 pandemic, that show won’t happen this July. So Calgarians, and anyone else who visits this southern Alberta city this summer, will have to revert to “The Greatest Outdoor Show on Turf.” And that would be the hot-off-the-presses Mickelson National layout that wiggles through the wind-whipped plains just west of town.

Read more...

https://golf.com/travel/phil-mickelson-design-mickelson-national-debut/
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 04:36:47 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Craig Sweet

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2020, 10:26:13 PM »
There's always fishing the Bow River..

No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2020, 09:33:13 AM »
It is also in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and only 1.5 hours to Banff, and its wonderful Stanley Thompson golf course, and a bit farther to Jasper.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 01:22:28 PM by Wayne_Kozun »

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2020, 03:13:26 PM »
Another puff piece?


Lefty delivers a 'can't miss' play in Mickelson National

Phil Mickelson’s first foray into Canadian course design has been well worth the wait, and may be championship worthy


https://www.morningread.com/where-to-golf-next/feature/2020-10-05/lefty-delivers-a-cant-miss-play-in-mickelson-national
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2020, 11:46:29 AM »
I worked in Western North Dakota the summer of 1968 and went up to the Stampede. Great fun for an eastern US boy from the city. I even bought cowboy boots!
I wonder how much time Mickelson spent there. I don't think he could have been there since March or April.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Andrew Harvie

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2020, 01:58:49 PM »
Mickelson went maybe four times to the site. It's a Rick Smith design. It's not awful, with a shocking amount of ground game and some interesting green complexes (I'm fond of the long par 4, 12th with a kicker slope on the left and a green falling away from you).


It's very clearly designed for an event, but as long as RBC's the sponsor of the Canadian Open, it'll never come. The project is hurting for cash because they spent so much money on it so it's semi-private. It's got weird stadium sized mounding and they planted trees on tops of the mounds, so the grow in will be weird.


And it is short for 8000 yards. Very manageable, but a lot of that is because Calgary is 3000 feet above sea level, and Springbank, to the West of the city, is higher.


If it doesn't snow I'll be back next weekend, but the forecast isn't looking good!

Michael George

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2020, 09:59:04 AM »
Just my opinion, but I am disappointed that Phil partnered with Rick Smith.  I am sure Rick Smith is a great guy and certainly is a great teaching professional.  However, when will these pro golfers realize the knowledge, experience and artistry that is required to build a great golf course.   You can't just pick it up. 

It is the reason that I love Ben Crenshaw.  Not only did he partner with Bill Coore, but he put Coore's name first in the name of the company.  Ben put building great courses that will stand the test of time ahead of financial considerations. 

Phil is a master at making money.  He is so smart in how he keeps himself in the golf news, despite not being a top player anymore, so that he can sell his sun glasses, coffee and Mizzen Main shirts.  I admire him for it, but maybe money is his primary objective in his design business too.   

Drew - I hope that Rick did a better job with the ground game here than he did at Arcadia Bluffs, which is a stunning property but really lacks use of the ground game..... despite being on Lake Michigan in common high winds.  In fact, the 11th hole may be one of the oddest par 5's that I have ever played.  The tee shot is hit to the side of a hill and the 2nd shot is literally a punch 4 iron to the most narrow fairway in golf.  That 2nd shot is just silly.  Have no idea what the architectural considerations on that hole were.

From the pictures, I am disappointed in the look.  Appears like there was a ton of dirt movement and it contains an artificial appearance (the mounding doesn't look natural at all).  Further, cart paths crossing in front of fairways and no effort being made to even hide them is not a good look for me.

Disappointing because I love Phil as a player. 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Andrew Harvie

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2020, 09:40:37 AM »
Just my opinion, but I am disappointed that Phil partnered with Rick Smith.  I am sure Rick Smith is a great guy and certainly is a great teaching professional.  However, when will these pro golfers realize the knowledge, experience and artistry that is required to build a great golf course.   You can't just pick it up. 

It is the reason that I love Ben Crenshaw.  Not only did he partner with Bill Coore, but he put Coore's name first in the name of the company.  Ben put building great courses that will stand the test of time ahead of financial considerations. 

Phil is a master at making money.  He is so smart in how he keeps himself in the golf news, despite not being a top player anymore, so that he can sell his sun glasses, coffee and Mizzen Main shirts.  I admire him for it, but maybe money is his primary objective in his design business too.   

Drew - I hope that Rick did a better job with the ground game here than he did at Arcadia Bluffs, which is a stunning property but really lacks use of the ground game..... despite being on Lake Michigan in common high winds.  In fact, the 11th hole may be one of the oddest par 5's that I have ever played.  The tee shot is hit to the side of a hill and the 2nd shot is literally a punch 4 iron to the most narrow fairway in golf.  That 2nd shot is just silly.  Have no idea what the architectural considerations on that hole were.

From the pictures, I am disappointed in the look.  Appears like there was a ton of dirt movement and it contains an artificial appearance (the mounding doesn't look natural at all).  Further, cart paths crossing in front of fairways and no effort being made to even hide them is not a good look for me.

Disappointing because I love Phil as a player.


There is a lot of ground game. I cannot think of a single forced carry off a tee, except on 10, and most of 18 is a forced carry (it's by far the worst hole). There was also a ton of dirt moved. I am blanking on the exact number, but it's the most I've ever heard of on a single golf course. Pretty confusing because the foothills of the Rockies produces some wonderful land. That's also why they're struggling financially because they spent so much getting it up. It reminds me a lot of Erin Hills or Chambers Bay for Canada

Ben Malach

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2020, 08:01:35 PM »
Andrew:


Mickelson National is in no way shape or form comparable to Erin Hills or Chambers Bay as at least those to venues are interesting golf courses. If this course was not the only new course opening in Canada this year would we be talking about it?


Yes, there are a couple good holes but the rest are mealy there to take advantage of the waste ponds of the surrounding housing development. Instead of comparing Mickelson National to Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, maybe a more apt comparison would be PGA West or TPC Craig Ranch. Housing development courses designed by a fading legend that seeks remain relevant though chasing tour events rather than addressing the underlying issues of the model.




This is all said with the hope that the next western Canadian golf project is done more with golf in mind than views for houses and an eye on an impossible tour event (If the Canadian Open came to Calgary it would most likely go to the Glencoe Club's Forest Course).  I your coming though Calgary there are much more interesting courses to see than this one. I would recommend a trip up to the Canals at Delacour or if you can try to see Calgary G&C or the aforementioned Glencoe Club.
@benmalach on Instagram and Twitter

Andrew Harvie

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2020, 11:35:38 AM »
Andrew:


Mickelson National is in no way shape or form comparable to Erin Hills or Chambers Bay as at least those to venues are interesting golf courses. If this course was not the only new course opening in Canada this year would we be talking about it?


Yes, there are a couple good holes but the rest are mealy there to take advantage of the waste ponds of the surrounding housing development. Instead of comparing Mickelson National to Erin Hills or Chambers Bay, maybe a more apt comparison would be PGA West or TPC Craig Ranch. Housing development courses designed by a fading legend that seeks remain relevant though chasing tour events rather than addressing the underlying issues of the model.




This is all said with the hope that the next western Canadian golf project is done more with golf in mind than views for houses and an eye on an impossible tour event (If the Canadian Open came to Calgary it would most likely go to the Glencoe Club's Forest Course).  I your coming though Calgary there are much more interesting courses to see than this one. I would recommend a trip up to the Canals at Delacour or if you can try to see Calgary G&C or the aforementioned Glencoe Club.


I disagree. They're massive modern golf courses built with the faux-links style in mind near big urban centres looking for events. I'll give you its the least interesting of the three, however.


You are correct on better options. Calgary is an exceptional Willie Park Jr. course that shouldn't be skipped, and Banff isn't that far from Springbank. I need to see Canals at Delacour, but alas it seems we got snow today! Not a big fan of Glencoe, personally, and would take MNGC over it. Not saying its perfect and you and I both know a guy like Whitman or Mingay or even yourself would've been a more interesting project, but I definitely wouldn't say it's a bad golf course. Perhaps a little flamboyant for my tastes, but there's a spot for it in the Calgary market.

CMP

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Re: Mickelson National Golf Club Of Canada
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2020, 05:02:31 PM »

Stewart is not bad and still not in the "flamboyant" category of courses around YYC - which I'll refrain from naming. I recall Gleneagles playing better than it was rated as well.


I agree with Drew on Glencoe; my guess is it stays on the lists because the city club is so vibrant and the members so great. I found some of the routing there to be a bit aggressive with the space.


You are correct on better options. Calgary is an exceptional Willie Park Jr. course that shouldn't be skipped, and Banff isn't that far from Springbank. I need to see Canals at Delacour, but alas it seems we got snow today! Not a big fan of Glencoe, personally, and would take MNGC over it. Not saying its perfect and you and I both know a guy like Whitman or Mingay or even yourself would've been a more interesting project, but I definitely wouldn't say it's a bad golf course. Perhaps a little flamboyant for my tastes, but there's a spot for it in the Calgary market.

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