OT - Now there are two Scots! (possible spoiler alert)

[David_Tepper]

Congratulations to Martin Laird for his win in Las Vegas yesterday. It was his first win since 2013 and the first win by a Scot on the PGA Tour since Russell Knox in 2016.

At long last there are now 2 Scots in the World Top 100 rankings, Laird just arrived on the list and is at #88 and Robert MacIntyre is at #94. Austria, Belgium and France all have 2 golfers in the top 100 as well.

The highest ranked Scot on the Euro Tour's Race To Dubai is Marc Warren at #41. He is behind a Finn, a Dane and an Italian, among others. 


I have wondered for some time why Scotland has done such a poor job of producing elite golfers. On the women's side the situation is even worse, as there is not one Scottish women in the top 200 in the world.

Any thoughts on why this is?

[Joe Zucker]

I would assume it mostly has to do with population.  There really aren't that many people living there with only 5 million.  We don't often wonder why there aren't multiple top 100 players from Minnesota or Maryland.  Obviously it's a golf rich country with so many great courses, so that would theoretically help, but it looks like having more people to increase the odds is more important than having more good courses.


Also, possible that the courses in Scotland don't prepare young players well for the modern game.  That's sad, but it's probably a marginal effect.

[David_Tepper]

Joe -

The population of Scotland is a little over 5 million. The combined population of Ireland is about 7 million. In the last 20 years Ireland has produced Harrington, McIlroy, Clark, McDowell and Lowry. Between them, they have won 10 majors. When was the last time a golfer from Scotland even contended in a major?


My guess is there are a lot more people who play golf in Scotland than they who play in Austria or Belgium. It is not just question of raw population.

DT

[Kalen Braley]

Interesting post, I checked the current OWGR and did some calculations of top 100 players from various Countries, per population. Looks like the UK and Ireland do just fine...

    Country        # Players    Per Population (Approx)
   North Ireland     2        900,000
    Scotland              2           2,750,000
    England              14          4,000,000
    Ireland                 1          4,500,000
    Australia              5           5,000,000
    USA                    42          7,800,000
    South Korea        4            12,750,000
    South Africa        4            14,250,000
    Spain                   3             15,600,000

China and India with a combined 1/3 of the worlds population.... 0!

[David Jones]

Interesting post, I checked the current OWGR and did some calculations of top 100 players from various Countries, per population. Looks like the UK and Ireland do just fine...

    Country        # Players    Per Population (Approx)
   North Ireland     2        900,000
    Scotland              2           2,750,000
    England              14          4,000,000
    Ireland                 1          4,500,000
    Australia              5           5,000,000
    USA                    42          7,800,000
    South Korea        4            12,750,000
    South Africa        4            14,250,000
    Spain                   3             15,600,000

China and India with a combined 1/3 of the worlds population.... 0!

Good work Kalen - this really appears to me!


The slimmed down European Tour has helped Scottish players get a big of a leg up at the moment. There is a more healthy contingent that we have seen for a long time. Along with Laird and MacIntyre, and the stalwarts of Warren and Ramsay, we're seeing the likes of Calum Hill, Connor Syme and Grant Forrest doing well. None of them world beaters but better than we've had for a few years.

[David_Tepper]

Kalen -

Not sure I see the point of comparing to the general population of the various countries. Wouldn't a better comparison be to compare to the golfing population of each country?

DT

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen -

Not sure I see the point of comparing to the general population of the various countries. Wouldn't a better comparison be to compare to the golfing population of each country?

DT

Perhaps, I used those ones cause they are the traditionally dominant countries at producing top notch golfers.

I'll take a look around and see if I can't find those numbers, but I suspect it'll be similar...

[Joe Zucker]

I don't think population is the only factor, but I do think it's the largest.  When looking at people way out on the tail of the distribution, it's nearly impossible to be confident in any finding.  A pair of good brothers (the Molinaris) can bias the data for an entire country.


It would be nice to say that a great golf culture creates world class golfers, but that might not be true.  Ireland looks like it could be an outlier on the positive side.  People self sort into what they are good at, so having a big golf population would increase the number of people with a chance to find golf.  But as long as you have some access, gifted people in countries without big golf cultures still have a chance to find it and succeed.  People with the ability to be great can find the game even if it's not popular. 

[Kalen Braley]

So I found numbers as best I could, but I'm not sure how accurate they are. Many sites said "registered golfers", while the US estimate I got thru the NGF site. These are based on number of pros in top 100 vs estimated amount of male golfers.

Country        # in 100    Amount Per Golfer
South Africa       4             25,000
England             14           37,000
Spain                3              72,000
Scotland            2              72,100
Ireland              1              145,918
Australia            5              208,000
USA                  42             647,600
South Korea       4              1,260,000

** Couldn't find estimate for N. Ireland

[Lou_Duran]

David,


What are your thoughts on the matter?  Cultural characteristics perhaps?  I don't know what kids in Scotland grow up doing, the types of sports they first play.  Any connection there?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I remember before Lee Westwood came along, all the conversation was why do Scotland have so many Top-100 players while England have none?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Damian McGrane (former European Tour player) is quite concerned about the lack of new Irish talent:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/golf/2020/1003/1169224-mcgrane-sounds-alarming-note-over-irish-golfs-depth/

[Tony_Muldoon]

Growing up as a Celt in exile,  I always admired and cheered World Beating and competing Scottish Sportsmen who seemed to play with elan: Dennis Law, Jim Baxter, Celtic - first GB team to win The European Cup, Gemill, Bremner etc at the World Cup, Andy Irving, Ian McGeehan, Alan Wells, Jim Watt etc etc. Many others, plenty to cheer about.


In that time Ireland had George Best. Willie McBride and Eddie Macken (showjumper) and Mary Peters. Little else




Since then Scotland has slipped back and Ireland has had its most successful Football and Rugby teams, A tour de France winner, 10 Majors (thank you David) (with only one prior to this) Mcguigan etc etc etc. Truly the best time to be an Irish sports fan.


In that time it seems like only Andy Murray has broken the trend.


Who can explain? However I can't ignore that during this period the economies of the two countries have followed similar trajectories to their respective sporting achievements. Coincidence?

[Niall C]

These things do tend to go round in cycles and there has always been points where small countries have punched well above their weight. Scotland did it in football in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Looking back at that era there were two things that helped; competition and a pathway to success. Football was and is the national sport and every kid played it and as well as school teams you had boys clubs, Scout's team, Boys Brigade teams etc. all playing competitive football. I'm not sure there is quite as much grass roots football now but certainly there isn't the same pathway to success. Now the two top clubs suck up the best youth players then release them before they get a chance to develop in the first team, and instead sign guys from England and elsewhere who haven't quite made the grade in their own countries. To my mind that's the biggest issue in Scottish football.


Not sure how that relates to golf but I suspect the current crop of young Englishmen and Irishmen doing well on tour tend to inspire and even help each other. Scotland hasn't quite got that bit of momentum going of late. I've no doubt that it will come in due course.


Niall   

[Ronald Montesano]

Could be the lessening of a role of haggis in the diet...


Just 'cause the Scots invented the game, doesn't mean they have a right to excel at it. How many Scots kids are playing golf? It might not be the avenue it once was toward ... who knows what?

[David_Tepper]

Glad to see some responses from those closer to the situation than I am.

No doubt sporting landscapes can and do change over time. From 1946 to 1973, either the U.S. or Australia won the Davis Cup in tennis every year.  Championship quality players from the Continent and Central Europe were few and far between. This century the tables have turned almost completely. The U.S.and Australia have won the Davis Cup just once each since 2000. If it was not for the Williams sisters, the U.S. would be a virtual non-entity in championship tennis over the last 10-15 years. Australian tennis is pretty much in the same boat.


That being said, I wonder if "the powers that be" for golf in Scotland are doing as good a job as possible encouraging and developing junior players. Is there a formal program to scout and nurture the most promising young players? Where is Scotland's Viktor Hovland, Magnus Hojgaard, Renato Paratore or Sami Valamaki?


To not have one Scot among the top 200 ranked women in the world is kind of shocking. It is worth noting that both the British Women's Open and Amateur were won this year by players from Germany.   


No doubt the game is far, far more global than it was 20-30 years ago. But to see so few players from the home of golf playing at the very highest level of the game is a bit surprising and a little disappointing.

[mike_beene]

Success can bring interest, competition and confidence. In the Dallas area there are active tennis and golf programs. We have little pro success in Tennis. About all I can remember is seeing Venus Williams hitting with our tennis pro when she came to town to date the Kuenie kid. Golf on the other hand has a long history of major champions and tour players. Why success in one and not the other?

[MKrohn]

If you are any good in Australia you go to college in the US, if you are really good you never come back.


Who made you a major champion?

[Marty Bonnar]

There’s a bunch of Scots playing in this week’s European Tour event:
https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/scottish-championship-2020/
Worth a watch if it’s on your local tellybox to see the Torrance Course at Fairmont St Andrews if you’ve never seen it...
F.

[Tony_Muldoon]

tellybox

John Logie Baird is currently spinning faster than any ProV1!

[Niall C]

If you are any good in Australia you go to college in the US, if you are really good you never come back.


Who made you a major champion?

Adam Scott obviously did but don't think Norman, Day, Leishman or indeed Mike Clayton did. They are maybe dated examples (sorry Mike) but is it the case now that you have to go to College in the US to make it ?


Going back to the Scottish examples, the two guys in the top 100, Laird and Knox, went to college in the US which is why they are probably still there. Not yet 40 and they have won $17m and $14m respectively in prize money. Richie Ramsay and Marc Warren, both of a similar vintage didn't go to College in the US and have spent their careers in Europe. Warren has won 8m euro's while Ramsay has won £6m in prize money. They might not be in the top 100 at the moment but they haven't careers to be ashamed of.


Niall   

[David_Tepper]

A question for those who might know. Does the Scottish Golf Union have a formal junior development program? Does it organize and fund instruction for the top junior players? Does it do things like sending the top half dozen juniors to Spain during the winter months for a week or two to practice?

I could be mistaken, but my sense is countries like Sweden are much more proactive developing junior players.
 
The 2 German women who won the Open and Amateur played college golf in the U.S. So did Sam Horsfield and Thomas Pieters. Matthew Fitzpatrick took a look and decided to pass. He has done quite well without it. 

No path guarantees success. That is for sure.

[Brian_Ewen]

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/martin-dempster-scottish-course-shines-european-tour-spotlight-3008401


Martin Dempster: Scottish course shines in European Tour spotlight
Monday, 19th October 2020


"You’re not going to see better greens all year, they’re absolutely immaculate," said former world No 1 Lee Westwood in delivering the tone of what seemed to be a view shared by everyone in the field on the Fife coast. "I think they’re some of the best links greens I’ve ever seen."

Concurring, Richie Ramsay said that it "is almost unheard of for greens to be like this in the middle of October" while Aaron Rai, the Scottish Open champion, described the course bearing Sam Torrance's name as an "awesome track in great condition with stunning views around the whole place".

Most venues, of course, have lots of time to get themselves in tip-top condition for big events, so there should really be no excuses in terms of delivering what is expected from both players and tour bosses in those tournaments.

There was no long lead up to this one, though, for the greenkeepers at Fairmont St Andrews. The event was only announced by the European Tour around seven weeks before it took place, completing the second of two new UK Swings on this season's revamped schedule.

All part of that first leg of events, Close House, The Belfry, Celtic Manor, Forest of Arden and Hanbury Manor were tried and tested venues on the European Tour, but not Fairmont St Andrews, which, of course, was known as St Andrews Bay when it first opened.

The odd eyebrow, in fact, may have been raised when that announcement was made about the Scottish Championship heading there, especially with the Old Course at St Andrews, Carnoustie and Kingsbarns seeming to be possible candidates after the cancellation of the Alfred Dunhill Links Championship this year.

Rarely, though, has a course being showcased for the first time by Sky Sports Golf earned such glowing praise, which was music to the ears of the company that now owns it, something that is probably news in itself to the vast majority of golfers in Scotland.

The people behind Great Century are based in Hong Kong, but Mark Henderson, the managing director, is a PGA Fellow Professional who hails from the west of Scotland. He was on site last week and was delighted that it had been a hugely-successful exercise.

"If Covid didn't swing around, there would have been no European Tour event at Fairmont St Andrews this year," he admitted. "We've owned the asset for less than 12 months. It wasn't the plan to try and host an event this year. We got lucky and, when you get opportunities, you've got to take them.

"I'd like to say we proved ourselves as a very solid host venue and to hear some of the remarks from the top players about the greens being the best links greens they'd ever played on has still not probably sunk in, to be honest. But, nevertheless, we will totally accept it and enjoy those comments."

One of the reasons the event took place in the first place at Fairmont St Andrews, of course, was its on-site hotel, which allowed the European Tour to create the "biosecure bubble" it has used very effectively indeed since the circuit came out of lockdown in July.

Who knows how long that will remain place, but, even when the world does indeed return to some sort of normality, it would be great on the back of this success if Fairmont St Andrews becomes a regular stop on the European Tour.

"We would love to host future events, but, at this stage, there is nothing signed up," added Henderson, who has worked in the golf industry in Asia for 10 years. "I guess there's a lot going on in the background as to what 2021 could look like. I don't think there is any urgency to nail down venues and there are obviously sponsorship difficulties due to the current climate.

"It was great to get it this year and we will see what happens in the future. For us, it is all about the long game. The new owners have set up a new company that is ultimately aimed at investing in the golf industry and the UK, we feel, is a very much a target for us to look at opportunities.

"We saw Fairmont St Andrews was a fantastic resort in the home of golf, which is the power of anything in St Andrews, and we are working on some strategy plans.

“It's obviously been tough this year to really move at any speed, but we would like to try and focus on the golf facilities at the Fairmont and, after the confidence the players and the tour have given us, we would very much like to be working towards hosting future events.

“The courses need a bit of TLC and we feel that over the winter we can work on them and carry out some enhancements on the condition that would hopefully put us in a stronger position to host these types of events moving forward. We are open to anything.”

Here's hoping those UK Swings are here to stay and we might also see the LET follow that same path. "How good is it watching so much European Tour golf on UK golf courses at this time of year?" wrote English player Meghan MacLaren during the final round of the Scottish Championship. "Got so much to offer... would love for us to have more tournaments here. So good."

Hear, hear!

[David_Tepper]

And 8 Scots finished in the top 50 in the tournament, although none finished in the top 15.

[David_Tepper]

There are 10 women from Sweden (4 of them amateurs) playing in the US Women's Open. Not one women from Scotland is playing.