How much does having spectators help scoring?

[Jonathan Mallard]

I thought about this while watching the 3rd round of the Scottish Open. I don't think I've seen it discussed yet on the board.


Just how much does having spectators help with scoring? Specifically, lowering the incidences of lost balls.


I remember 2 notable lost balls in recent weeks. The one from (I forget the contender) one of the last groups to tee off in the US Open, and Phil Mickelson on the 10th hole during the second round at the Ozarks.


I've also seen (at least anecdotally to me) a higher number of searches for balls. I just don't think those happen at nearly the same volume with spectators present.


I also think that even with the smaller search groups, there are still more folks participating in a search than would be involved with a routine foursome. There are caddies, usually a marshal or two, a rules official, and perhaps even on-course reporters and broadcast personnel that have the benefit of replay to limit the size of the area to be searched, which decidedly improves the odds of finding the ball.


I would think that all of these factors lend themselves to encouraging swinging for the fences, which will increase the size of the dispersion pattern, which all things otherwise being equal, will increase the number of lost balls and raise scores.


That's a lot of words to say that the implied strokes lost under penalty of loosing a ball seems to be less than the implied strokes gained by shortening the distance required by the shorter shot.


I'm very interested to hear other opinions on my theory, and what the potential implications are for course architecture.

[Kalen Braley]

Before WFW....

I would have said it wouldn't be enough to counter the effects of pros no longer getting better lies in the rough due to trampled down grass by galleries, or having balls going less off-line due to hitting people and getting knocked down.

But, it would be interesting if lost ball/OB stats were kept to compare this year vs previous years...

[Wayne_Kozun]

A related issue is how much does having grandstands provide the pros with an option of bailing out into the grandstand?  We saw the fake "grandstand" become controversial in the Dinah Shore a few weeks ago.

[John Nixon]

Maybe having a few hundred spectators lining the fairway would make for fewer lost balls, but I'm also curious how a few hundred spectators yelling at ya might turn up the pressure a bit and more than offset a found ball.

[Tom_Doak]

It's not just the lost balls . . . having grandstands and galleries offer players backstops and free drops in certain situations.  Witness the controversial backstop for the 18th green at the *event fka the Dinah Shore* a couple of weeks ago.


But, with the rare exception like that, the presence of galleries is more likely to help the struggling golfer than the guy shooting 64 and contending for the trophy.

[A.G._Crockett]

Maybe having a few hundred spectators lining the fairway would make for fewer lost balls, but I'm also curious how a few hundred spectators yelling at ya might turn up the pressure a bit and more than offset a found ball.

John, if a golfer is bothered by a few hundred spectators, then he either doesn't make it to the Tour, or he won't be there long. 

The guys on Tour, like most pro athletes, tend to thrive on the crowds.  The great exception in golf, of course, has been to be in Tiger's group because of the constant movement going on as fans rush to the next shot or leave after Tiger putts out to rush to the next hole.

[Peter Flory]

How often do pros lose a golf ball in play?  I would think that it would be so infrequent that it wouldn't even show up as a blip statistically with or without spectators. 

[Matt_Cohn]

How often do pros lose a golf ball in play?  I would think that it would be so infrequent that it wouldn't even show up as a blip statistically with or without spectators.

Having played Harding Park a shortly before and after the PGA, it was HARD to find balls anywhere off the fairway. The tour often has 4+ inch rough. With no help from TV, spectators, or volunteers, I think lost balls would be stunningly frequent, to be honest.

[A.G._Crockett]

How often do pros lose a golf ball in play?  I would think that it would be so infrequent that it wouldn't even show up as a blip statistically with or without spectators.

Having played Harding Park a shortly before and after the PGA, it was HARD to find balls anywhere off the fairway. The tour often has 4+ inch rough. With no help from TV, spectators, or volunteers, I think lost balls would be stunningly frequent, to be honest.

A number of years ago, I was playing in a charity scramble, and the organizers had a long drive competitor on the tee at a par 5; if your group contributed some amount of money ($100 maybe, but I don't remember) he would hit a drive for the group to play.  We paid, of course, and he told us, "I'll hit until there is one that you should play; I'll tell you when."  I think it was on the third of fourth ball that he said, "That one.", and I promise you that none of the four of us had ANY idea where any of the balls had gone.  All of them could have been in the fairway, all of them could have been in the rough, all of them could have been in the woods; no clue, because we simply couldn't follow the ball off the club. The drive we played had gone about 370 off the tee on a downhill hole, so longer than the Tour guys, but not a lot longer.

I tend to agree about lost balls on Tour, though I wouldn't even guess at the frequency.  The issue of lost balls was the first comment that I read after the Tour announced they would resume with no spectators, and it came from Koepka.
In addition to the rough, those guys hit the ball so far that a vector that is off by a few degrees goes WAY off.  Add in trees and blind areas off the fairway, and I think it could become pretty mysterious pretty quickly. 

[Jonathan Mallard]

Just wanted to note for the record that in the first round of the CJ Cup at Shadow Creek, Ricky Fowler lost his ball off the tee in the face of the greenside bunker. He attempted to drive the green on a 302 yard par 4.


Seems difficult to imagine this happening with more people present.

[David Ober]

How often do pros lose a golf ball in play?  I would think that it would be so infrequent that it wouldn't even show up as a blip statistically with or without spectators.

Having played Harding Park a shortly before and after the PGA, it was HARD to find balls anywhere off the fairway. The tour often has 4+ inch rough. With no help from TV, spectators, or volunteers, I think lost balls would be stunningly frequent, to be honest.

Matt, do you think 4-inches is correct? I think they have 4-inch rough frequently in the week leading up to the tournament, but then they cut it to 2 to 3 inches, frequently. I have played a few courses the day after a tour event, and the rough never felt unplayable to me. 4+ inches is very, very, very difficult to play from. Not saying there are not tour events with 4-inch rough, but I would say that's the exception, not the rule?

[Jonathan Mallard]

Bump to include BDC's episode on #3 in Round 2 of the 2020 Masters.