[Niall C]

Kalen


I too believe in balance which was why I was trying to show I'm not just going off on a golf bad for the environment rant.


With regards C&C, Mike Keiser etc. maybe they can pick and choose what site they develop. They want to make it easier for themselves and I dare say they have earned that right. I'm not going to criticise them for that but I'd disagree with the notion that you can't make a great course out of anything that isn't pristine links.


Niall

[Niall C]

The two are completely different. Mach Dunes was built _inside_ the SSSI. David had to avoid various areas of the site that SNH decreed were too sensitive to be touched, but the course was built on the natural dunes. This is why the walk was so long, and was widely criticised. Dumbarnie was built on farmland above the SSSI.

Adam,


That's the point. They worked round the SSSI. As for what they did work on at Mach Dunes, that was farmland that was used for grazing before they built the course.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

The two are completely different. Mach Dunes was built _inside_ the SSSI. David had to avoid various areas of the site that SNH decreed were too sensitive to be touched, but the course was built on the natural dunes. This is why the walk was so long, and was widely criticised. Dumbarnie was built on farmland above the SSSI.

Adam,


That's the point. They worked round the SSSI. As for what they did work on at Mach Dunes, that was farmland that was used for grazing before they built the course.


Niall

Not at all. The entire course was built _within_ the SSSI.

[Ian Mackenzie]

My sense since 2015 has been that the opposition to Coul was always direct result of the "Trump Effect" (at Aberdeen) and a mean reversion to how the Scottish Govt rolled over and acquiesced to his tactics (even after it was shot down locally)  But, it can be reasonably suspected that Trump did not play by the "rules" that others may have....


Keiser doesn't give a thought to Trump.
But, make no mistake, Trump does not like Mike solely because MK's US courses are all ranked above Trump's.(I think all...) And Trump did not want Coul to get accolades and potentially steal brand cache, and revenue, from his property - especially by other Americans.


I seem to recall that even the environmental consultants at Trump Aberdeen ended up being the lead opposition against Coul almost like they sought to cleanse themselves and wash the Trump stain off for their misreading of Menie and watching the site get obliterated environmentally after they signed their names in approval of the process.


I never understood how these guys could in good conscience could say that they endorsed Trump Aberdeen but somehow Coul Links was hallowed ground. Or, maybe it was just that they weren't hired by the Coul developers to do the environmental consulting...?


I think the Scottish Govt had egg on their faces over Aberdeen and the rejection of Coul was a way to say that Scotland is not for sale to Americans always.


Sadly, the losers may be the residents of Sutherland.


I also never heard a good explanation for why the course could not have been moved "west" about 100-150 yards. The property is huge and only 3 holes ran along the water and only one dramatic tee box was on a dune.


There was also going to be fantastic driving range across the road on the farmland portion. Dornoch needs one as hitting against the nets behind the shop can be trying. Unless you go down to where that ex-M.I.-6 guy runs the stocked trout pond and driving range...;-)

[Adam Lawrence]

I seem to recall that even the environmental consultants at Trump Aberdeen ended up being the lead opposition against Coul almost like they sought to cleanse themselves and wash the Trump stain off for their misreading of Menie and watching the site get obliterated environmentally after they signed their names in approval of the process.

That's true, and I think there was a lot of buyer's remorse over Trump Aberdeen in evidence during the Coul planning process, though to be fair to Dr Dargie it should be noted that he advised the Trump course should be moved away from the mobile dune system, and his advice was rejected by the developers.

[Niall C]

Ian


Dargle (?) was a consultant to Trump but he also told him not to build the course where he did. Trump hired him as a consultant, not a supporter. Did he have remorse afterwards ? I'm fairly sure he did, most probably at the way Trump misrepresented his views.


Adam - Mach Dunes was farmland. I'm assured by an acquaintance who owns a nearby farm that it was definitely used for grazing. However the point is they didn't fight the planners or environmental groups the way Trump and Keiser/Warnock did. They lived with the constraints and built a fantastic course that is great fun. Are there a few walks ? Yes, but I doubt they compare unfavourably to what is at CS, KB or Dumbarnie.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Niall -- you are missing the point. Machrihanish Dunes may have been grazed, but the entire site was SSSI and natural, raw dunes. Dumbarnie was ploughed farmland. Mach Dunes was an almost entirely 'found' golf course, the only disturbance of the ground was for greens and tees. Every square inch of Dumbarnie was shaped. If you don't perceive a difference, I'm afraid there isn't any point continuing this discussion.

[Niall C]

Adam

I think we are talking by each other in that your missing my point and I'm missing yours. Yes, the whole strip from north of Mach Dunes down to about the burn at the second on Machrihanish is SSSI. A lot of golf courses are on SSSI land although they do claim to be the first to be built on it. However the point I was making was that the land that Mach Dunes sits on was farmland. My definition for farmland being that if a farmer makes money out of it for agriculture then it's farmland. It's a different nature to Embo.

The developer and architect worked with SNH and planners to avoid the extremely sensitive areas and continue to agree an ongoing management plan with them.

Similarly at Dumbarnie where they had to deal with SSSI to a lesser extent. Links Magazine did an article with the following comment from Clive Clark;

“There were a number of things that cropped up along the way,” Clark said, “and some of them quite unexpected…a lot of little battles and fires that had to be put out.” These included small sections of SSSI land, two underground gas pipelines, and an area of archeological significance that had to be avoided. “But we played right by the book. We did everything we were asked to do by the authorities and SNH.”

Could Trump or Keiser/Warnock really say the same as Clive Clark ?

Niall
 

[David_Tepper]

More pushback at the local level:

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/coul-links-an-election-issue-232735/

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