Coul Links Lives?

[David_Tepper]

Maybe

https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/coul-links-course-in-the-frame-again-213744/

[David_Tepper]

Maybe not.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/mar/21/renewed-highland-golf-course-plan-has-environmentalists-crying-fore

[David_Tepper]

From the Scotsman:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/coul-links-leading-economist-says-new-scottish-government-guidance-could-pave-way-for-golf-course-approval-as-pandemic-highlights-need-for-crucial-investment-3173134

[Adam Lawrence]

But still no mention of where the money might come from...

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:


Are you doubting that the money would come, or are you saying it matters where it comes from?

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam:


Are you doubting that the money would come, or are you saying it matters where it comes from?

TBH both. If the money were in place, they'd be saying so. And yes, I think Keiser money is preferable, in pure golfing terms, to Trump money.

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:


Are you doubting that the money would come, or are you saying it matters where it comes from?

TBH both. If the money were in place, they'd be saying so. And yes, I think Keiser money is preferable, in pure golfing terms, to Trump money.

They might well be afraid to say so, especially if the money is overseas money.  Last time around, I had the sense that if the money was UK money, the conversation would have been very different.

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam:


Are you doubting that the money would come, or are you saying it matters where it comes from?

TBH both. If the money were in place, they'd be saying so. And yes, I think Keiser money is preferable, in pure golfing terms, to Trump money.

They might well be afraid to say so, especially if the money is overseas money.  Last time around, I had the sense that if the money was UK money, the conversation would have been very different.

Maybe. I don't think so. I think the antis are anti-golf, not just anti-American golf.


In any case, I don't see any possibility of UK money developing that site, so imo it is moot.

[Niall C]

The issue is simply where they are planning to build the course. No one so far seems to have explored the option to build the course on the land above the sensitive land in the same fashion as Dumbarnie. If they proposed that it wouldn't matter where the money came from as it would pull the rug from under the environmentalists feet. Unfortunately the locals have become wedded to the idea put forward by the previous developers that the only land that is viable to build a golf course is the sensitive land.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

The issue is simply where they are planning to build the course. No one so far seems to have explored the option to build the course on the land above the sensitive land in the same fashion as Dumbarnie. If they proposed that it wouldn't matter where the money came from as it would pull the rug from under the environmentalists feet. Unfortunately the locals have become wedded to the idea put forward by the previous developers that the only land that is viable to build a golf course is the sensitive land.

Niall

I know what you mean, but fundamentally either it is a proper links or it isn't. I don't think messrs Keiser and Warnock were interested in building a fake links. Someone else might be, I don't know.

[Ira Fishman]

Is the site really that special or have the years of buzz been a function that it would have been C&C’s first course in Scotland?


Ira

[David_Tepper]

Ira --

The site is pretty special. There is a gallery of 36 photos of the property here:

https://www.coullinksgolf.com/gallery/

DT

[Ira Fishman]

DT,


Just think what Braid could have done with it :-).


Ira

[William_G]

Is the site really that special or have the years of buzz been a function that it would have been C&C’s first course in Scotland?


Ira

I have been to the site, and hmmmm not anything but typical dunes land with all that yet near RDGC

[Tom_Doak]

Most sites just look like typical dune land until someone takes you to the right spots!

[Adam Lawrence]

I walked Bill's routing with Chris Haspell, and it had some wonderful features, including the deepest natural punchbowl I have ever seen.


But I think it is all academic tbh. No-one doubts that the locals want the course, but they have to find a developer prepared to go into battle to try and get planning consent, which has already been refused by the Scottish government. The whole thing strikes me as the longest of long shots.

[Thomas Dai]

Would seem timely to let the idea go quiet for a few years then maybe bring it back to life with different front-of-house folks and maybe a different name, say Embo GC? By then the Govt and semi-govt folks who may not want it to happen will also probably have moved on.
atb

[Niall C]

The issue is simply where they are planning to build the course. No one so far seems to have explored the option to build the course on the land above the sensitive land in the same fashion as Dumbarnie. If they proposed that it wouldn't matter where the money came from as it would pull the rug from under the environmentalists feet. Unfortunately the locals have become wedded to the idea put forward by the previous developers that the only land that is viable to build a golf course is the sensitive land.

Niall

I know what you mean, but fundamentally either it is a proper links or it isn't. I don't think messrs Keiser and Warnock were interested in building a fake links. Someone else might be, I don't know.

Sorry Adam, I don't buy that. If you call that a fake links then so is Turnberry (both courses), Royal Troon (both courses and indeed the 3 municipals), Western Gailes, Glasgow Gailes, Kilspindie, Muirfield and North Berwick. And that's not to mention CS, KB, Dumbarnie and Mach Dunes. If however you mean a "found" links as you've referred to in the past then I think that's just a romantic notion based on the assumption that they won't be shifting much if any material.

Niall

[Niall C]

Would seem timely to let the idea go quiet for a few years then maybe bring it back to life with different front-of-house folks and maybe a different name, say Embo GC? By then the Govt and semi-govt folks who may not want it to happen will also probably have moved on.
atb

David

It would seem timely to stop banging your head against a brick wall by ignoring the environmental issues. You started a thread a while back about the image of golf. What do you think the perception and image of the game is like when "golf" pursues developments like this ?

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

I certainly did raise such a thread. And it received nearly 50 kind replies. Threads can be raised for many reasons however and I didn't join in on the thread myself as I raised it to gather the thoughts of others. As to Coul, perceptions change over time and if it comes back one day it doesn't have to be in the same format.
atb

[Niall C]

David


Agreed. And that was the point I was really trying to make. Why do they need to use the environmentally sensitive ground ? Why pick a fight with the environmentalists and planners when you don't need to ? Think how Dumbarnie managed it, how Mach Dunes managed it and even KB and CS which were on less sensitive sites.


Outside the bubble of gca people are looking at this and shaking their head, and no wonder.


Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

David

Agreed. And that was the point I was really trying to make. Why do they need to use the environmentally sensitive ground ? Why pick a fight with the environmentalists and planners when you don't need to ? Think how Dumbarnie managed it, how Mach Dunes managed it and even KB and CS which were on less sensitive sites.

Outside the bubble of gca people are looking at this and shaking their head, and no wonder.

Niall

Mach Dunes is an odd example, as that site was SSSI.

[Niall C]

Adam,


Mach Dunes has SSSI has/had SSSI on the larger site but then so has Dumbarnie. Both worked with the planners and various environmental statutory bodies rather than fighting against them. Rather than being odd, to me they are the exemplars that should be followed. Better to do that than go down the Balmedie/Embo route.


Frankly I'm just surprised that folk on here either don't recognise the direction in travel in terms of greater environmental awareness or alternatively don't feel the need to acknowledge it. As an aside, I should say for those that don't know me that I am not some sort of tree-hugging eco warrior extremist. Rather, I think I'm probably a fairly representative member of the public.


Niall 

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam,


Mach Dunes has SSSI has/had SSSI on the larger site but then so has Dumbarnie. Both worked with the planners and various environmental statutory bodies rather than fighting against them. Rather than being odd, to me they are the exemplars that should be followed. Better to do that than go down the Balmedie/Embo route.


Frankly I'm just surprised that folk on here either don't recognise the direction in travel in terms of greater environmental awareness or alternatively don't feel the need to acknowledge it. As an aside, I should say for those that don't know me that I am not some sort of tree-hugging eco warrior extremist. Rather, I think I'm probably a fairly representative member of the public.

Niall

The two are completely different. Mach Dunes was built _inside_ the SSSI. David had to avoid various areas of the site that SNH decreed were too sensitive to be touched, but the course was built on the natural dunes. This is why the walk was so long, and was widely criticised. Dumbarnie was built on farmland above the SSSI.

[Kalen Braley]

Niall,

You make good and reasonable points.  However, given Mike K's and C&C's history, I don't think they are in the business of building just another golf course.  If I had to guess if they thought the could build something high quality on the other areas you speak of, they would have pursued it.

P.S.  I agree with the environmentalist movement in general, but I also believe in balance.