Rockin' The Cradle

[David_Tepper]

A real success story:


https://www.pinehurst.com/news/three-years-in-and-the-cradle-rocks-more-than-ever/

[Peter Flory]

Wow, that is a lot of rounds.  $2MM in annual revenues on a 12 acre patch of land seems pretty successful indeed. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

At $50 and free replays it could be a great way to spend an afternoon.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Wow, that is a lot of rounds.  $2MM in annual revenues on a 12 acre patch of land seems pretty successful indeed.

Where does it say $2MM in annual revenue?  Is it by multiplying number of rounds by $50?  If that's the case you forget about all the folks who pay nothing, like replays, members, juniors, employees...

[Peter Flory]

Wow, that is a lot of rounds.  $2MM in annual revenues on a 12 acre patch of land seems pretty successful indeed.

Where does it say $2MM in annual revenue?  Is it by multiplying number of rounds by $50?  If that's the case you forget about all the folks who pay nothing, like replays, members, juniors, employees...

Yes, I just did the calc that you suggested and didn't realize that they included free rounds in their figures (but you're right that they probably did).  Maybe that knocks it down to $1.5MM.  My point is just that it must be relatively profitable on a per area basis. It's basically the area of only 1 to 1.5 golf holes on a typical course. 


What was on that land previously?  Was it part of the practice facilities, or just unused ground?

[William_G]

https://www.pinehurst.com/golf/courses/cradle-short-course/



[/size]


nice little par 3 course of 789 yards for 9 holes....
many resorts have these and all are successful
best way to play these is as a large group in a skins game, super fun
Bandon, Sand Valley, Gamble Sands to name a few

[David_Madison]

It's been so successful that at times it's actually pretty difficult to get on and play. No more walk-ups - - starting times only, certainly later in the week and on weekends when the resort is busy.

[Keith Phillips]

With those economics we should see 9 hole par 3s popping up all over the place, even outside of major golf resorts.  If Top Golf can be a big success, why not a chain of good / fun par 3s in major suburban areas?  It would be great for the game.

[David_Tepper]

Keith -

I suspect the success of the Cradle is due to the fact that it is set among the 100's (or even 1,000's) of golfers who visit Pinehurst daily.

In addition, from an operating point of view, the cost to maintain the Cradle is quite modest relative the operation/structure that is already in place to maintain the seven 18-hole courses at Pinehurst.


While it would be great to see more courses like the Cradle, I doubt they would be nearly as successful on a stand alone basis.

DT

[A.G._Crockett]

Wow, that is a lot of rounds.  $2MM in annual revenues on a 12 acre patch of land seems pretty successful indeed.

Where does it say $2MM in annual revenue?  Is it by multiplying number of rounds by $50?  If that's the case you forget about all the folks who pay nothing, like replays, members, juniors, employees...

Yes, I just did the calc that you suggested and didn't realize that they included free rounds in their figures (but you're right that they probably did).  Maybe that knocks it down to $1.5MM.  My point is just that it must be relatively profitable on a per area basis. It's basically the area of only 1 to 1.5 golf holes on a typical course. 


What was on that land previously?  Was it part of the practice facilities, or just unused ground?

Much of it was the old first hole of #5.  Formerly, you would play the first hole, then cross the road and play the second hole, which is now the first.  They added a new 18th hole next to the road, running back away from the road crossing, clubhouse, and the former 18th/now 17th green. 

While the new 18th is maybe just a tad shoehorned, whoever did it did a nice job; good, wide Pinehurst style landing area, then a pretty demanding second shot to a relatively demanding green.  The only problem I found with all of this is that it confused the heck out of my GPS watch (and me!) until I figured out to just advance the hole number by one.
In any case, it's a good trade, IMO; The Cradle is that much fun.  The only drawback now is that The Cradle is just incredibly crowded, which is both a testimony to it's success AND too bad for people that are only in Pinehurst for the day and don't get to finish off the day with a round on The Cradle.  Oh, well...

[Peter Sayegh]

Looking at Google maps time lapse it seems there were two holes on that parcel.I think it effected #3 as well #5.
I was told upon teeing off on #3 that there were reconfigured holes to accomadate the cradle

[William_G]

the 18 hole muni I grew up playing also had a 9 hole course and a mini-golf course, that's how you grow the game at least in my case LOL

[William_G]

It's been so successful that at times it's actually pretty difficult to get on and play. No more walk-ups - - starting times only, certainly later in the week and on weekends when the resort is busy.

the fee is likely too low given the site
should be at least 80 with some money going to a good cause

[Peter Sayegh]

Finally-somewhat reluctantly-played The Cradle. Count me forever unimpressed with it. Bleh.

I would rather play 1,3,5 than revisit it.
Its popularity (and income) is unquestioned. Every time I'm there it's busy.
A.G. offered what was on that parcel of land beforehand. Was it JUST the old 1st on #5 that was there? The 18th on #5 is the worst hole on campus and that seems a result of the creation of The Cradle. For those here "pre-Cradle" is it a good trade off? Thanks.
Full disclosure: My guest and myself did not pay for our trip through The Cradle.

[Daryl David]

Finally-somewhat reluctantly-played The Cradle. Count me forever unimpressed with it. Bleh.

I would rather play 1,3,5 than revisit it.
Its popularity (and income) is unquestioned. Every time I'm there it's busy.
A.G. offered what was on that parcel of land beforehand. Was it JUST the old 1st on #5 that was there? The 18th on #5 is the worst hole on campus and that seems a result of the creation of The Cradle. For those here "pre-Cradle" is it a good trade off? Thanks.
Full disclosure: My guest and myself did not pay for our trip through The Cradle.

+1


Finally I know I’m not alone. I just didn’t get it. Can think of a dozen things I’d rather do at Pinehurst than spend time on the Cradle.

[PCCraig]

Last year, when we stayed at a house a mile down the road for a couple of weeks we played the Cradle a few times as a family. It is plenty fun and it's hard to beat a course that my wife and I could play a match from the same set of tees, while our 5 year old daughter could hit a few shots while walking along with us.


If I was on a more serious golf trip, I would rather spend my time and $ over at #3 for a similar fun, twilight round of golf.


But, kudos to Pinehurst for adding a whole lot of vibrancy around the clubhouse with the Cradle and the putting course. It used to be pretty sleepy around there, but now there is usually always activity.

[Craig Disher]

The first holes of intermediate versions of courses #3 and #5 were on the land now occupied by the Cradle. I don't know if the loss of the original 18th hole of #1 was a consequence of building the Cradle; it may have happened earlier but I can't remember. I'll admit the Cradle does produce a lot of activity around the clubhouse but to my taste it's a carnival atmosphere that I'm happy to leave once I can start play on one of the PH courses.
The 18th on #5 should be given some slack. It's basically the original first hole on the original #3 course, a nice intro, and an easy walk from the clubhouse. I doubt any walkers enjoy the trek to the new starts on #3 and #5.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Once these sort of facilities get created to attract non-golfers in to the game, then they become truly worthy.


Is this just another variation of a playground for well-to-do folks who already visit the resort and drop loads of cash?…. An entirely different concept to something like the Himalayas putting green at St Andrews that attracts non-golfers and passers by for (what used to be) £2 a round.


I’m sure it’s good fun. But is it adding much to the local community (is there a local community)? Is it worth the column inches it gets?

[Peter Sayegh]

Craig, thanks for the info. I wonder how the proposed hotel will impact that area near The Cradle and Thistle Dhu.

Ally, I just noticed that kids 17 and under play The Cradle for free with an accompanied p(l)aying adult. I was unaware the age limit was that high. I think that's a fair ask for a daily fee.

PC, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When my buddy, his (non-golfing) wife, and young kids finally meet me in Pineurst, The Cradle is definitely on the itinerary. Otherwise, myself and my golfing guests, have better places to spend our time.

[John Foley]

Wow - surprised with the apathy for the Cradle. I think it's one of, if not the most unique / fun experiences in the game. I've played it alone paired with a random couple, with my brother and then as an 8 some of my dearest friends. Played it early in the day before a round, played it as the sun dropped on a gorgeous evening after 36 holes. Played it in warmth & in cold. Each and every time it was a blast. I wouldn't trade it for a round on #2 or Dormie or TR, but anytime I get to the area I'm going there.


Cant wait to see all of the other imitations that have arisen or are planned.

[Peter Sayegh]

John, would you trade a day on The Cradle for a round at either #1, #3, or #5 or Midland Country Club? Just curious. #2, Dormie, and TR are brutal comps. I appreciate you mentioning the different types of groups you've played with there. I think that makes a ton of difference for The Cradle.

I really hope those who play it, enjoy it-I'll be on #1 or #3.

[MCirba]

Everyone can play it and have challenging fun on a small acreage with everyone else on the course in full view.

It's like a block party on a golf course where there are plenty of other options.   What's not to like?

[Amol Yajnik]

Once these sort of facilities get created to attract non-golfers in to the game, then they become truly worthy.


Is this just another variation of a playground for well-to-do folks who already visit the resort and drop loads of cash?…. An entirely different concept to something like the Himalayas putting green at St Andrews that attracts non-golfers and passers by for (what used to be) £2 a round.


I’m sure it’s good fun. But is it adding much to the local community (is there a local community)? Is it worth the column inches it gets?

Thistle Dhu, the Pinehurst version of the Himalayas, is right next to the Cradle.  There are tons of locals out there that don't pay a dime to play it.  Last fall, a friend and I did 2 loops of the Cradle right before sunset after playing #3.  We were walking off of the last green on the Cradle and looked over, and there were tons of people on Thistle Dhu as it was lit up for night play on that night.  For what it's worth, most of those people were younger than the typical demographic that you see in Pinehurst. 


The Cradle is a giant success and the proof is in the demand to play rounds out there.

[John Foley]

John, would you trade a day on The Cradle for a round at either #1, #3, or #5 or Midland Country Club?

I have not played any of those so if given the choice and I only get one round then yes I would play them. However, this is not mutually exclusive exercise. You can do both and if time allows only one it's the Cradle everyday!

[A.G._Crockett]

John, would you trade a day on The Cradle for a round at either #1, #3, or #5 or Midland Country Club? Just curious. #2, Dormie, and TR are brutal comps. I appreciate you mentioning the different types of groups you've played with there. I think that makes a ton of difference for The Cradle.

I really hope those who play it, enjoy it-I'll be on #1 or #3.

Why would you have to “trade” a round on The Cradle for any of those? I’ve played The Cradle three times; twice after 18 hole rounds, and once before.  It only takes 45 minutes.  It’s great fun, and not meant to be a substitute for any 18 hole round.