[Ronald Montesano]

The European Tour returns its Scottish Open to the Renaissance Club this week. Will a fall playing change things like wind and conditioning?

[Niall C]

Ron


It will play a bit softer I'd think and you'll certainly notice the difference in terms of the surrounding trees being bare. Not sure it will necessarily be windier as the wind tends to be variable all year round but there will be a better chance of rain which will have a bearing on the chance of softer conditions I referred to previously.


However I think the biggest challenge for some of these guys is that it is likely to be a good bit colder than they normally play on tour. That might affect ball flight but more than that I fancy quite a few just won't fancy playing in the cold too much.


Niall

[David Jones]

Niall is right on the softness. Even though it was relatively soft last year, I walked a couple of holes over the weekend and things are pretty green now.


The forecast isn't great for the end of the week though - wet with a bit of wind as well and it will be chilly in the mornings. I was speaking to someone yesterday who played there a couple of weeks ago and he said the rough wasn't too bad so he didn't see a big difference from last year's edition.


One big difference visually will be the removal of a huge number of trees. A lot have come down, especially on the holes nearest to Muirfield. There was a note to volunteers earlier in the year saying that the European Tour had asked the course to remove trees to  improve the links feel of the course. I don't think it will have any impact on the playability of the course given they were all a long way from playing corridors from what I saw.


I think Tom was here earlier in the year looking at some other tweaks so maybe he has more info.

[Tim Gallant]

Niall and David hit most of the key points. It feels like it has been a lovely September weather wise so I hope the fairways and greens are sufficiently firm. The wind looks like it will kick-up a bit on the weekend, which will be great. Fingers crossed the rain stays away!

[Tom_Doak]

The changes from last year are mostly cosmetic -- major tree removal so it will appear more 'linksy', which is something the client has wanted to do for years, and some bunker revetting to make faces more severe on a handful of holes.


None of that will have as much effect on the scoring as a normal breeze would.


The European tour also wanted us to change contours short of the 11th green to make the hole more fair (ie, easier), but we deferred that because we didn't think we could do it in the spring and have it right for July.      

[Marty Bonnar]

They also appear to have reinstated (at least some of?) the original routing:
https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/aberdeen-standard-investments-scottish-open-2020/course

[Tom_Doak]

They also appear to have reinstated (at least some of?) the original routing:
https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/aberdeen-standard-investments-scottish-open-2020/course

That's confusing.  It's not the "original routing" before the holes on the coast were added, they've just renumbered it so that it's not the sequence the members play, nor the sequence they used last year. 


For those who know the course, this is the new sequence [real hole numbers the members play]:


Front nine:  1-6, 16, 14, 15
Back nine:  7-13, 17-18


To add to the confusion, many of the photos on the European Tour link are of the wrong holes!   

[Thomas Dai]

Thoughts on the course set-up etc after a couple of days play I n comparison to last years event?
Shame no Tom D insights as part of the commentary this year.
Atb

[Will Lozier]

For those who know the course, this is the new sequence [real hole numbers the members play]:


Front nine:  1-6, 16, 14, 15
Back nine:  7-13, 17-18


To add to the confusion, many of the photos on the European Tour link are of the wrong holes!   

Yes, the virtual hole flyovers have two repeats. I was VERY confused trying to route it on Google Earth this way. How can the Euro Tour possibly not have these right for a big event? Oh well...

[Marty Bonnar]

The European Tour returns its Scottish Open to the Renaissance Club this week. Will a fall playing change things like wind and conditioning?

Well, it’s absolutely chucking it down over most of the UK today. Course is holding up decently well, all things considered. They seem to have done a ton of tree removal - so much so, I’m having difficulty recognising some of the holes! That, and the re-numbering for the tourney, of course.
F.

[Ronald Montesano]

https://www.europeantour.com/european-tour/aberdeen-standard-investments-scottish-open-2020/leaderboard?round=3

[Tom_Doak]

I was going to remark after the second round about the crazy few double bogeys and "others", but there were a few of those today.


The conditions today were brutal, ai take no pleasure in seeing that.  Hopefully tomorrow is just a normal windy day.


As to the lack of big numbers, I guess it's due to the greens being pretty large, and the lack of holes with real trouble to both sides.  Even when you find the nastiest spot, as ling as you don't leave yourself there, you can always get to a spot that leaves you a decent chance to savd bogey.  Is that a bad thing?  I don't know.

[Thomas Dai]

Nice one Tommy Fleetwood.
atb


https://twitter.com/i/status/1312421440566759430

[Tom_Doak]

Thomas:


Yes, after that, I felt quite bad for him not getting up and down on 18 to lose the playoff today.  But Aaron Rai played some pretty brilliant golf, too.

[Niall C]

I've only watched the highlights of the last couple of days but I thought the course showed up very very well and players seemed to be complimentary. Last year there was a few gripes about conditioning but none that I've heard of this year. Also, maybe it was yesterdays dousing but somehow the ground movement seemed to stand out more than it normally does on TV when it tends to be flattened out.


A question to Tom on the removal of trees - was this part of the plan from the start or has it been developed over time ?


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Good final day...


Have they changed the mowing lines to bring a few more of the bunkers in to play? Course didn’t seem as narrow as a couple of years ago (though clearly not as wide as design intent at opening)

[Thomas Dai]

Yes, after that, I felt quite bad for him not getting up and down on 18 to lose the playoff today.  But Aaron Rai played some pretty brilliant golf, too.

There’s a lot to be said for perseverance and strength of character as Tommy Fleetwood was a several over par after a few holes of 1st round and yet ultimately came close to winning.
Bit like Bobby Locke on being asked which of his several victories in The Open he was most proud of ... his reply was that it wasn’t any of his Open wins of which he was most proud but a 4-round tournament at Wentworth where he finished 3rd after starting the 1st round something like 6-5-7 or thereabouts. He could easily have become disillusioned and thrown in the towel, but he didn’t.
Atb

[Tom_Doak]

I've only watched the highlights of the last couple of days but I thought the course showed up very very well and players seemed to be complimentary. Last year there was a few gripes about conditioning but none that I've heard of this year. Also, maybe it was yesterdays dousing but somehow the ground movement seemed to stand out more than it normally does on TV when it tends to be flattened out.


A question to Tom on the removal of trees - was this part of the plan from the start or has it been developed over time ?

As to the TV picture, it's October and the sun is much lower in the sky than it would be at 6:00 pm in July, so the contours show better.


There are also fewer shadows on some holes 😉


Our client has wanted to knock down all the trees since Day 1, but the local council was not having it.  So they got the European Tour to say how much better it would look if it were opened up and more linksy, and a more politically favorable local council approved the additional clearing.  Personally, I never really cared one way or the other, but our client is very happy with the change.

[Tony_Muldoon]

They had a lot more cameras and showed off the course much better than for the Ladies Open.  Enjoyable.

As for the winner.
It would be hard to spot the difference between the dourest Scotsman and a Rai of sunshine.

[Ben Stephens]

Tom


Could the 17th have played as a short par 4 more risk and reward (more thrilling for TV viewers) - the tee would then be closer to the 16th used for the Scottish Open


This routing looks better than the previous variations bringing the holes nearer the coast later on in the round.


Cheers
Ben

[Ben Stephens]

Tom


Could the 17th have played as a short par 4 more risk and reward (more thrilling for TV viewers) - the tee would then be closer to the 16th used for the Scottish Open


This routing looks better than the previous variations bringing the holes nearer the coast later on in the round.


Cheers
Ben

Drat where i was thinking the tee to be is now a large house 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Has the cliff top hole, played as 13, always had OOB white stakes to the left?

[Tom_Doak]

Has the cliff top hole, played as 13, always had OOB white stakes to the left?

I'm not sure, honestly.


The problem with marking it as a lateral hazard is that it's very difficult to tell from the tee where your ball crossed the line.  Making it OOB eliminates those arguments.

[John_Cullum]

Has the cliff top hole, played as 13, always had OOB white stakes to the left?

I'm not sure, honestly.


The problem with marking it as a lateral hazard is that it's very difficult to tell from the tee where your ball crossed the line.  Making it OOB eliminates those arguments.

That's what drop zones are for

[Tom_Doak]

Has the cliff top hole, played as 13, always had OOB white stakes to the left?

The problem with marking it as a lateral hazard is that it's very difficult to tell from the tee where your ball crossed the line.  Making it OOB eliminates those arguments.

That's what drop zones are for

Yes, but they might be arguing about whether the ball crossed the line up in the fairway and then hooked out, or whether it never got over that line after crossing it in front of the tee.


There is also a legitimate safety issue there as people walk the beach below the hole when the tide is out.

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