[Bruce Katona]

I didn't, I was was working.


Any thoughts or opinions on the design & routing?

[Matt_Cohn]

It looked fun. I don't feel a desperate need to play it, but it looked fun, mostly because it's wide with some central bunkering and perfect grass tee to green. Definitely pretty. The 19th hole looked...weird. It's probably super fun to actually play it, though.

[Pete_Pittock]

Sorta, in the background. Massive earth movement, but that was probably a given because of original topography. Wide. White amoeba bunkering. Nice waterfalls. The 19th hole (pictured) was not there two weeks ago. Personally, no interest in playing that style. Didn't see much shade, it would be a bear to play in summer humidity.

[Mark Kiely]

Having watched part of the back-to-back Champions Tour events at the two other Big Cedar Lodge courses recently, Payne's Valley struck me as more subtle, design-wise, despite the massive rock walls that look sorta like Big Thunder Mountain. Only caught the last 7 or 8 holes, though.

[Thomas Dai]

Seemed to have lots of very wide fairways and only short grass surrounding the bunker edges.
atb

[Tom_Doak]

That sounds like a hefty tab for a Grand Opening event!

[SL_Solow]

I watched while doing other things.  As far as the course is concerned, the property is dramatic and the holes appear to be quite wide and relatively open.  Impossible to tell whether it is a windy site.  More importantly it was impossible to tell whether the width created strategic options as opposed to being wide for its own sake.  My biggest problem with Mammoth Dunes is that while it is beautiful, I saw no strategic benefit to shot placement and thus the width almost detracts from the golf while adding to the beauty.  The same may be true here but given the limits of the coverage, I cannot say.


Perhaps the most interesting feature was Gary Player's ranting about architecture.  The Fried Egg has a tape of part of it posted.  After the usual claims about miles flown, courses seen etc. etc. he declared himself a conservationist and tree hugger blasting tree removal on golf courses.  All this while opening a course with almost no trees next to one he designed which is equally treeless.  I suppose he would suggest that there were few mature trees there when he started but his comments were a reminder that there are very different points of view relating to the topic that we love to discuss.  I must admit that I have not been impressed with the Player courses I have experienced even though I have played some very good golf on them

[Kalen Braley]

I watched the coverage too and the course looked pleasant enough, even if not particularly compelling.  Looks like they moved a ton of dirt including uncovering a bunch of what appeared to be limestone.  I'm guessing that 18th green/19th hole configuration is quite the visual in person!

But GPs epic rant really stole the show, it was nothing short of unhinged like his rant on Chambers Bay.  He has to be the leader in the clubhouse for biggest blowhard in golf. 

[Jeff Schley]

For Missouri, yes it looks like a good spot I would travel a relative distance to play. Not exactly the cradle of great golf courses, so considering the state it ranks high.

[Marty Bonnar]

In Tiger’s on-Course interview with Henni Zuel, he said they had ‘dynamited’ quite a bit. Not exactly in a minimalist ethos!
F.

[Jeff Schley]

In Tiger’s on-Course interview with Henni Zuel, he said they had ‘dynamited’ quite a bit. Not exactly in a minimalist ethos!
F.

Marty that did make me laugh. good observation.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

For Missouri, yes it looks like a good spot I would travel a relative distance to play. Not exactly the cradle of great golf courses, so considering the state it ranks high.

Geez, thanks Jeff for knocking my home state. No more meth for you!


I've posted here before that the entire Big Cedar complex is more impressive than Pebble Beach and Kohler from the resort and amenities side (The Tap Room is one of the biggest letdowns I've ever experienced, but I digress). Haven't seen Payne's Valley, and Buffalo Ridge is a Fazio so it wont get much love here, but Ozarks National is a legit minimalist masterpiece.


Would I recommend it to GCA folks over Bandon Dunes and Sand Valley? No. But if you want to have the wife or kids tag along who aren't golf sickos like we are, you won't be disappointed.


And if your opinion of the area is formed by watching "Ozark" - that show takes place at Lake of the Ozarks which is about 1 1/2 hours north of Branson. Entirely different scene in the Bible belt that is Branson

[Jeff Schley]

For Missouri, yes it looks like a good spot I would travel a relative distance to play. Not exactly the cradle of great golf courses, so considering the state it ranks high.

Geez, thanks Jeff for knocking my home state. No more meth for you!


I've posted here before that the entire Big Cedar complex is more impressive than Pebble Beach and Kohler from the resort and amenities side (The Tap Room is one of the biggest letdowns I've ever experienced, but I digress). Haven't seen Payne's Valley, and Buffalo Ridge is a Fazio so it wont get much love here, but Ozarks National is a legit minimalist masterpiece.


Would I recommend it to GCA folks over Bandon Dunes and Sand Valley? No. But if you want to have the wife or kids tag along who aren't golf sickos like we are, you won't be disappointed.


And if your opinion of the area is formed by watching "Ozark" - that show takes place at Lake of the Ozarks which is about 1 1/2 hours north of Branson. Entirely different scene in the Bible belt that is Branson

Sorry Ryno!   Should of taken the velvet hammer instead.
If they include a show with Shoji with my round I'm there.

[archie_struthers]

 


Gary is a great player and a fitness miracle but has anyone ever played his golf courses. Yikes

[Bernie Bell]

Gary is a great player and a fitness miracle but has anyone ever played his golf courses. Yikes

Haven't played many of them, but the Creek 9 at Champions Retreat is a lot of fun.   

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

For Missouri, yes it looks like a good spot I would travel a relative distance to play. Not exactly the cradle of great golf courses, so considering the state it ranks high.

Geez, thanks Jeff for knocking my home state. No more meth for you!


I've posted here before that the entire Big Cedar complex is more impressive than Pebble Beach and Kohler from the resort and amenities side (The Tap Room is one of the biggest letdowns I've ever experienced, but I digress). Haven't seen Payne's Valley, and Buffalo Ridge is a Fazio so it wont get much love here, but Ozarks National is a legit minimalist masterpiece.


Would I recommend it to GCA folks over Bandon Dunes and Sand Valley? No. But if you want to have the wife or kids tag along who aren't golf sickos like we are, you won't be disappointed.


And if your opinion of the area is formed by watching "Ozark" - that show takes place at Lake of the Ozarks which is about 1 1/2 hours north of Branson. Entirely different scene in the Bible belt that is Branson

Sorry Ryno!   Should of taken the velvet hammer instead.
If they include a show with Shoji with my round I'm there.

Tickets come with a time share presentation. As Club Pro Guy can attest, best investment you'll ever make

[Matt Kardash]

Just watched a video of a guy playing the course. Is it just me or does the setting of the course seem very similar to French Lick (Dye)?Which of the two is the better course?

[Phil Burr]

I watched the same broadcast tonight on TGC.  I've seen neither Payne's Valley nor French Lick.  Payne's Valley appears to be an utterly bland wide-open golf course ideally suited to the modern pro.  I realize I'm seeing it through a television lens but it looked very dull.  And the 19th hole looks lifted from a Safari Golf mini-course on Route 1 in any northeastern coastal town.


I'm prepared for the shade I'll receive for saying this, but I'm not prepared to give French Lick an overwhelming thumbs-up either.  Seeing it only through photographs and television, it looks like a rehash of every cliche (except for the island green) Pete threw into most of his later work.  Sharp drop-offs, pot bunkers, long narrow fairway bunkers demanding precise lines of play, no forgiveness, etc.  Question: once Pete's style became the standard for PGA-commissioned TPCs, did his originality suffer compared to the earlier creative genius of Harbour Town, The Golf Club, Teeth of the Dog, etc.?


TD said (paraphrasing here) in an earlier post that architects who consistently accept jobs on poor sites may never get better jobs.  Was Pete the exception?  Old Marsh, Sawgrass and Ford Plantation appeared to have been worthless acreage until he drained the swamp (NOT a political statment!) and built terrific golf courses.  And when given an expansive canvas such as the Ocean Course or The Golf Club (did he truly persuade the owner to purchase additional land to accommodate his design?) he created masterpieces that define his legacy.


Let the attacks come...

[Matt Kardash]

I am not sure Pete Dye got any great sites for golf on the level of a lot of the exceptional sites we have seen in the last 20 years.His best site is without a doubt Teeth of the Dog, and even that site is fairly flat.As Tom said, I think Dye became typecast as the guy who could make a very good course out of nothing, so for the most part those were the type of sites he worked with. I would have loved to have seen what Dye would have done with a great piece of linksland in the sand. Alas, he never got that chance.

[Pete_Pittock]

The alpha golfer of our Tuesday travelling golfer watched it and is trying to put together a group to head there and play all the courses, maybe in late June. Some have said yes, but I am passing on the opportunity. What is ironic is that he will make a 8 hour?
flight/drive to Missouri, but not a 5-6 hour drive and stay in the Pacific Northwest to play Silvies or Gamble.

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