OT: Bryson DeChambeau will change the physics of golf

[David_Tepper]

"You could say the same thing about men's tennis or bowling."


I have played and watched tennis for well over 55 years. In the last 20 years, the way tennis is played has changed much more than the way golf is played.

In addition, in tennis, the size of the players has changed dramatically. Top players, both men and women, are much taller than they used to be. 


DT

[Mark Pearce]

I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid.  Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night.  Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive.  Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school.  They were all on the juice...

Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...

Pleased it's not just me with that suspicion.

[Joe Bausch]

Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:

https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/

Bingo!

[Peter Flory]

I have played and watched tennis for well over 55 years. In the last 20 years, the way tennis is played has changed much more than the way golf is played.

I grew up playing tennis before golf and loved watching it as well.  It is a shame. 

While I would prefer a rollback in golf (and tennis), I definitely don't expect anything to happen.  They waited so long that anything really substantial would be unfair to players and would generate enormous resistance.  And I wouldn't blame a player for resisting a change when they've based their financial livelihood on the current rules. 

[Pete_Pittock]

The Golf Channel just reran an 'Swing Expedition' featuring BDC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aeTZTMSZcw.
I found it fascinating. A merging of Moneyball with Long Drive Championship.

[Mike_Clayton]

Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:

https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/

"The championship is forever in forlorn search of players replicating the precision of Ben Hogan who, along with Jones and Nicklaus, is one of three four-time champions."
With apologies to Willie Anderson - the other 4-time champion.

[Grant Saunders]

I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid.  Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night.  Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive.  Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school.  They were all on the juice...

Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...

Why is is so hard to believe that a guy with an analytical mind, like Bryson, didnt simply devote himself to studying what was required to achieve his goal?


Clearly the guy is off the charts focused on what he chooses to do and obviously is blessed with natural athleticism.


Most people would be downright shocked at what "normal" people can actually achieve in terms of body transformation in a relatively short period of time. Take someone like Bryson, who also has the means to finance the diet and supplements required, and you would be amazed.


Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

[Chris Kane]

Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

I heard a first-hand account of an absolutely extraordinary temper tantrum several years ago, long before he started bulking up. I've also been told it wasn't an isolated incident.

So not really fair to link shithead behaviour with PEDs in Bryson's case.

[Jeff Schley]

Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

I played college athletics with several guys who took steriods. I didn't notice them being like volcano's, although I did notice them being more withdrawn. Total anecdotal, and really the one thing that I saw affecting them moreso was the acne they developed and how that affected their appearance to girls.  They were embarrassed by this quite a bit and perhaps became more withdrawn as a result and upset with the tradeoffs they were making.


I took creatine back in 1997 while coaching with the team. I know it is safe now, but back then you had younger athletes getting dehydrated and was even banned for some time as it was thought of as unsafe. It was the only time I had taken it and I can attest that I got bigger, faster and stronger as it allowed me to workout longer and harder. I guess it still could, but I don't want to be bigger, that is for sure. 

[Grant Saunders]

Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

I heard a first-hand account of an absolutely extraordinary temper tantrum several years ago, long before he started bulking up. I've also been told it wasn't an isolated incident.

So not really fair to link shithead behaviour with PEDs in Bryson's case.

There are plenty of people who are extreme volatile and known to lose it at the drop of the hat. In the music world for example, Elton John and Axl Rose are 2 that come to mind (so we're lead to believe)


I suspect the personality type that is often associated with perfection and immense drive is possibly more at play regarding outbursts.

[Grant Saunders]

Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

I played college athletics with several guys who took steriods. I didn't notice them being like volcano's, although I did notice them being more withdrawn. Total anecdotal, and really the one thing that I saw affecting them moreso was the acne they developed and how that affected their appearance to girls.  They were embarrassed by this quite a bit and perhaps became more withdrawn as a result and upset with the tradeoffs they were making.


I took creatine back in 1997 while coaching with the team. I know it is safe now, but back then you had younger athletes getting dehydrated and was even banned for some time as it was thought of as unsafe. It was the only time I had taken it and I can attest that I got bigger, faster and stronger as it allowed me to workout longer and harder. I guess it still could, but I don't want to be bigger, that is for sure. 

One of my best mates got into the world of steroid use as a competitive bodybuilder. It was basically cheaper for him than purchasing all the supplements that allowed him to train naturally plus he wanted to see if it afforded him greater benefits.  It messed with his concentration a bit and did make him more prone to swings of mood. It also (according to him) shrunk his testicles by a third while using.


He played so social golf but according to him, being on the juice certainly didnt go hand in hand with playing a game that required control of emotion and elements of feel and touch.


I have personally used creatine many times and while cycling it, you will almost instantly gain about 4 - 6kg of weight in fluid retention. It makes you look bulky but not defined while giving you greater strength and endurance. When I look at pictures of Bryson, I see someone who appears to be large yet not necessarily ripped. I suspect he uses creatine and should he stop, he would drop about 5kg of body weight straight away.


People that instantly suspect steroids when they see someone with a gain in size have most likely never touch a pair of dumbbells in their life

[John Crowley]

Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?

David- Just my own experience but I have a set of the Cobra single-length irons I bought when they first came out. I was dealing with the aftermath of 2 back surgeries and trying out the single-plane swing. Overall I discovered I am neither Moe Norman nor Bryson, but I find the single length makes the most difference in the short irons, 7-SW. Really helped me. So there's an n of 1.

N-2 Mark.
I’ve played with single length irons since BDC was 12 years old. For a different reason, not due to my swing plane. Single length enables me to continue carrying my bag with fewer clubs (7). Only carry a PW and an 8i, both 6i length. By gripping up or down and/or adjusting ball position each of those clubs is effectively three. PW is gap, PW, 9i.    8i is 9i, 8i, 7i, 6i.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Ratings for Sunday at the US Open weren't good (3rd lowest on record) and it was the biggest power hitter in the world's first major victory.  What could be more exciting than that?

I wonder if the TV ratings could be due to more competition on TV?  The US Open has never had to compete with the NFL before.

[Peter Flory]

I noticed that in the last 10 US Opens, the winners have been a combined 66 under par.  In the 10 Opens before that, the winners were only 14 under par.  Each set of 10 contained Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst, and Oakmont. 

If we ignore par, here is the average winning score in 10 year increments going back to 1901:
2011-2020: 275
2001-2010: 279
1991-2000: 278
1981-1990: 278
1971-1980: 282
1961-1970: 281
1951-1960: 283
1941-1950: 283
1931-1940: 288
1921-1930: 293
1911-1920: 297
1901-1910: 307

For the PGA Championship, the average winning score this decade has also dropped by 4 shots.

They had been keeping things close until this decade.  Scoring was pretty much frozen for 30 years and most of my life.  Scoring in the 2000s was only 2 shots better than in the 1960s despite going from persimmon clubs and very average golf balls to 460cc drivers and proVs.  That really isn't even noticeable as it occurred over decades.  And it was further masked by reducing par for the same courses even as they got longer.  I never really thought about it exactly like this before, but I think that we're finally seeing evidence of courses running out of ammo/ room to expand and unable to make conditions harsher.  It was just fortunate that they were so roomy when they were build as many of the architects back then were highly aware of tech inflation and planned for more of it. 

Looking at it this way, it makes sense that pressure is finally starting to build and the topic is debated more heavily. 

[Thomas Dai]

As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

Interesting post.  I suspect if todays players with todays equipment had been playing those courses at the length they played from  pre-2000 and back, the winning aggregate would be well under 270. Back when long par 4s used to be 420 and most par 5s were in the 480-530 range.  They would eviscerate them...

[Pat Burke]

I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid.  Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night.  Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive.  Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school.  They were all on the juice...

Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...

Why is is so hard to believe that a guy with an analytical mind, like Bryson, didnt simply devote himself to studying what was required to achieve his goal?


Clearly the guy is off the charts focused on what he chooses to do and obviously is blessed with natural athleticism.


Most people would be downright shocked at what "normal" people can actually achieve in terms of body transformation in a relatively short period of time. Take someone like Bryson, who also has the means to finance the diet and supplements required, and you would be amazed.


Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?

Grant, I can give you a recap of reasonably quick, golf related gains I made in 1997 WITHOUT the use of anything other than a great trainer and significant diet changes
Again 1997
I started in early March
1) I was fat
2) I was not reaching goals
3) I finally found a personal trainer that made sense to me after 4 different attempts
4) I was sent to cardiologist that specialized in athletic training and performance and did a work up
5) after my physical assessment with the trainer, he put together a program based and my medical results and my strengths and weaknesses. (It took my 2+ days to recover from the trainers assessment!)


In Early March I started
Huge diet change from a heavy carb and junk food diet to a scheduled protein based plan to regulate a too high insulin level after meals


1 hour of basic cardio 5 times per week. I mostly skated (ice or rollerblade depending on locale availability)
3 time per week basic weight training to build a decent base before actual training began
After a little over a month
Cardio started to incorporate interval training
Weight training became 4x per week and work on different body parts/sections
Diet protein calories were upped


In my third month plyometric training was added to  the weight training (4x per week)
To work on power/explosiveness




In late August before blowing my wrist up I did another assessment The results were amazing
I had lost net 32 pounds but gained 19 pounds of muscle
I was actually much bigger in my legs leaner in upper body by miles. At that time we were not looking for size/mass gains but my legs just respond that way after growing up a hockey player I believe


I had gained, with the same equipment:
10 yards Carry with my driver
1 full club longer with my irons
A ridiculous ability to practice longer and not tire while practicing and playing


I had set out to make a leap in improvement as a player and accomplished this in 5 months before hitting a shot out of a bush and blowing my wrist up


The trainer and plan was a missing part of using my abilities to play. To this day it bothers me because I believe I had finally learned how to be a true professional golfer athletically

[Ken Moum]

As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb

As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.


It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.

[archie_struthers]

 


"
Maybe "physique of golf" was a more appropriate query?
[size=78%] [/size]
Pat , that's an awful story about your wrist but pretty good one about your getting fit. I'm going to start today because of your post !

[Thomas Dai]

As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb

As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.
It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.

This is about putting surfaces where the grass is longer than that currently the norm, especially longer putts. It could also apply to uphill or into the wind putts or putts on a damp surface or a combination of all.
The longer the grass on the putting green the more power has to be transmitted by the putter to the ball to achieve a given distance, this essentially involves swinging the putter on a longer arc or using more wrist action.
I would suggest, I’ve experimented with such an approach myself, that with very upright angles and a rigid arms/no-wrist method such as used by BDC, it becomes more difficult to precisely strike the ball with a putter and thus roll a ball on a consistently accurate line and length when you are required to swing the putter on a longer arc.
Mind, if putting surfaces had longer grass BDC would probably carry two different styles of putters maybe with different lofts and use one with a different technique or putt with a hybrid or find some other method that would work to his benefit.
Atb

[Pat Burke]

"
Maybe "physique of golf" was a more appropriate query?

Pat , that's an awful story about your wrist but pretty good one about your getting fit. I'm going to start today because of your post !

Haha good for you!!
For the record, at top levels and for safety with regular golfers, we obviously have an issue on how far a percentage of players are hitting it


Sometimes the loudest voices in this debate (seem) to dismiss the work on improving (some with fitting, some with fitness, many with both) and that can frustrate me given what I’ve personally done and witnessed with students working hard to optimize their games.


Again, I don’t have a solution, but there is a safety issue to figure out imo

[BCrosby]

Good stuff Peter. As Kalen notes, it would be interesting to also see the average yardage of US Open venues by decade. Maybe apply a fudge factor to those lengths to reflect that not all holes are set up to play to their full length every round.


Then give the ratio of average driving lengths by decade to course lengths by decade. I don't think driving length info is available before the 1960s(?), so maybe that ratio is not  possible for older USO's. There is a fair amount of info on driving lengths, even in the 1920s and 30s, in the USGA Distance Report. I will take a look.


As you probably know, in an apples to apples comparison of how long a course today would need to be to play like a 7000 yard course did in 1970, today's course needs to be about 8300 yards. Conversely, a 7400 yard course today would play something like a 6500 yard course did in 1970, a course length (Merion and few other courses excepted) most would have considered in 1970 too short for a USO or even a regular Tour event.


Bob 

[Pete_Pittock]

When will they build an "Iron Bryson"?

[Ken Moum]

As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb

As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.
It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.

This is about putting surfaces where the grass is longer than that currently the norm, especially longer putts. It could also apply to uphill or into the wind putts or putts on a damp surface or a combination of all.
The longer the grass on the putting green the more power has to be transmitted by the putter to the ball to achieve a given distance, this essentially involves swinging the putter on a longer arc or using more wrist action.
I would suggest, I’ve experimented with such an approach myself, that with very upright angles and a rigid arms/no-wrist method such as used by BDC, it becomes more difficult to precisely strike the ball with a putter and thus roll a ball on a consistently accurate line and length when you are required to swing the putter on a longer arc.
Mind, if putting surfaces had longer grass BDC would probably carry two different styles of putters maybe with different lofts and use one with a different technique or putt with a hybrid or find some other method that would work to his benefit.
Atb

Sorry but it doesn't work that way if you actually do it correctly. I first started a zero-hinge stroke when I moved from a course with small fast greens to one with huge slow greens. Several greens on that course were around 40 yards wide or deep. I was completely lost when faced with a 70- to 8-foot putt on a slow green.


At first,for anything outside about 30 feet i pulled out a six iron and chipped. Then I started experimenting and realized I could swing the putter without any wrist action at all and control my distance with stroke length.


It took a little while to get comfortable with a stroke that took the putter shaft to almost parallel to the ground, but as long as I kept my head still I could hit putts dead solid. The effect on my lag putting was magical.


Now, I probably couldn't do it today without a couple of practice sessions because 1) the greens got fast before I moved away 20 years ago, and 2) I've played most of my golf at a course with tiny greens during that time.


However, I've been playing Red Mountain Ranch in AZ the last winter and a half, and the greens are not only bigger, but with big elevation changes I've had to work on my old method.

[Thomas Dai]

I am far from convinced, the opposite in fact, but am glad you found it helpful.
Atb