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Steve_ Shaffer

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Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« on: September 14, 2020, 10:58:30 PM »
Construction at the club in Pinehurst, N.C., features work on the Coore-Crenshaw-designed golf course plus a 16,600-square-foot clubhouse, pro shop and 15 cottages


Read more...

https://www.morningread.com/industry-news/release/2020-09-13/dormie-club-enhancements-coming-along-strong
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 11:12:24 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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Jay Mickle

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 07:17:37 AM »
Played on Sunday and the course was in the best shape it has ever been in during the summer. The walking bridges through the natural are a great addition, realizing the original intent of a walking golf course. While the photos of the enhancements are impressive, at the moment there is only a major construction site for the main clubhouse with greater progress on the housing. Looking forward to seeing the finished project next year.
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Tim Martin

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 02:59:02 PM »
Despite all the competition in and around Pinehurst I think it’s in the “must play” column. Even before the walking bridges it was a blast to play.

Carl Rogers

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 07:11:19 PM »
I was under the impression that Dormie was not open to outside play any more.
Right?
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 07:28:31 PM »
I was under the impression that Dormie was not open to outside play any more.
Right?


Right, it is now private again. But you can always call me Carl.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jay Mickle

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 07:37:28 PM »
I believe that access may still be possible by booking through Tobacco Road Packages
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Carl Rogers

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 10:24:27 PM »
I was under the impression that Dormie was not open to outside play any more.
Right?


Right, it is now private again. But you can always call me Carl.
Tommy & Jay,
Thanks.  Will do.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2020, 10:27:03 PM »
What other work has been done on the course besides the walking bridges.  I have always really like the course but it felt like it needed to be finished.  By that I mean some of the tee boxes were kind of ragged and the bunkers never really drained very well.

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2020, 06:32:16 AM »
What other work has been done on the course besides the walking bridges.  I have always really like the course but it felt like it needed to be finished.  By that I mean some of the tee boxes were kind of ragged and the bunkers never really drained very well.


The article states, "Around the highly regarded Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw layout, the bunkers have been restored using the Better Billy Bunker system, cart paths have been enhanced, winding walking bridges have been constructed, several new tee boxes accessible by walking trails have been added, landscaping has been refreshed, hundreds of trees have been removed to improve views around the property."
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 08:21:31 AM »
Oops - my bad - I guess I should have read the article. Glad that is being done as it deserves more recognition than it receives. 

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2020, 09:21:22 AM »
Does anyone know if C&C did the bunker work? They look much cleaner.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2020, 09:24:53 AM »
Does anyone know if C&C did the bunker work? They look much cleaner.


I am not positive but when I was down there during the work it seemed as though it was done in house. I know it was at Ballyhack.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Roman Schwarz

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2020, 10:29:30 AM »
What other work has been done on the course besides the walking bridges.  I have always really like the course but it felt like it needed to be finished.  By that I mean some of the tee boxes were kind of ragged and the bunkers never really drained very well.


Working from memory, here's what I can think of:


-A bunch of work was done on the left side of the #4 fairway where balls used to run into the woods and drainage creek.  There's some new mounding, sand, and plants over there.  Doesn't help you get away with anything better than a bogey, but you'll find your ball now.
-Significant tree removal on the left side of 8.  Other than the visual of opening up views and breeze from the lake, it helps keep that low side from being a marshy pit.
-There are a few new fans on greens.  #3 is new for sure, not sure exactly when the others were installed.
-Lots of new tee boxes have been added.  Some of them are home runs that needed to be done.  There's a new white tee on 8 that plays as well as the blue one for a shorter hitter.  There are a lot of new tee boxes on various holes, but the most significant I can think of for the white tees are on 1, 5, and 15.  The 15 one is still in progress and should be good.  It's hard to do much with #5 with the lake, but I think it's a little better.  I'm not a fan of the new one on #1.  It's too short and too far to the right given what it seems "white" should be for the course.  If they add a new color between blue and white such that white is somewhere in the < 5700 range, then it would be fine.  There are enough tee box options, including new back tees on 8 and 13.  I've heard there will be new back tees on 1 and 4 after the clubhouse is done.  There should be another color added somewhere between 5800 and 6500 (plus allow for combo tee options), if it were up to me.  The infrastructure is there already to do it.
-They were adding some new drainage on the blue/black tee box last week.
-There was some subtle tree removal on the left side of the 13th fairway.  Your odds of finding your ball and having a play out of there improved.
-I was a little concerned about the bunker renovation, but I think it's turned out well.  I was concerned things would get a little too "manicured", but it feels like they fit in with the scrub well.  What I was told is that previously when it rained hard, they basically had to rebuild all the bunkers.  Rather than playing any different, the theory was that it would help maintenance significantly.  They had to do a bunch of tests, but were ultimately still able to use on-site sand to fill the new bunkers.  It needed to be sifted a little to drain well enough to take advantage of the underground drainage.
-I'm not a grass expert, but there really seems to be a plan in place for how they want the course to play.  The bent greens were phenomenal into July (yes, you read that right), then they did a bunch of work in August, supposedly to make it play fire fast this fall.  In the past, I never felt like it played firm enough in the fall compared to winter, but if that works, I'll be thrilled.  A week or 2 ago they were trucking some kind of mix and spreading it on all the fairways.


Other than refining the tee mix a little bit with the boxes that already exist, the 3 holes I still feel like could use some TLC are 7, 9, and 11.  7 is never going to be a redan with the tilt of the green, but the left "fairway" and hill is too spongy and maybe not sloped quite right to ever get the ball to roll onto the green from over there.  I still aim over there when I play a longer tee, but that's because it's a good place to get up and down rather than because I expect any particular bounce or roll.  9 is a little tricky for 1st-timers that don't realize it plays longer than the yardage, but it's not super interesting for repetitive play.  I'm not 100% sure what I'd do, but I don't think it plays as well as a comparable hole like the 5th at Wekopa.  That hole has a bunch of different tiers and slopes to work with, but Dormie's is usually just a "hit the middle tier" hole because the front is false, and the back is too small for most players.  A good player could go for that back tier by playing to the middle tier and taking spin off, but I've never seen anybody try or execute it.
11's still the odd ball in my book.  They've cleaned up the scrubby area on the right, but that just means some people that aren't afraid of an approach off of sand can blast it over there and have a better look at the flag.  An alternate short porch off the tee option on the right would be intriguing.  There's some "hog's back" potential to the fairway as well since there's runoff on both sides of the fairway, but there's no real advantage to being in the middle.  If the middle was not blind, but the sides were, that would be fun as well.  Right now, the only place that isn't blind is the sand on the right.  The green is also better attacked from the right side because it slopes left to right with a backstop that you can use if you're in that sandy area.  The tee shot just isn't that interesting and the fairway to green angles/options are incongruent.


Overall, I'm thrilled with the direction I've seen it take.  Cinderella is finally getting her chance to go to the ball after years of nothing but conditioning complaints.  Hopefully people aren't too distracted by the clubhouse and cottage improvements to notice how far the course has come.

Philip Hensley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 01:24:14 PM »
What other work has been done on the course besides the walking bridges.  I have always really like the course but it felt like it needed to be finished.  By that I mean some of the tee boxes were kind of ragged and the bunkers never really drained very well.


Working from memory, here's what I can think of:


-A bunch of work was done on the left side of the #4 fairway where balls used to run into the woods and drainage creek.  There's some new mounding, sand, and plants over there.  Doesn't help you get away with anything better than a bogey, but you'll find your ball now.
-Significant tree removal on the left side of 8.  Other than the visual of opening up views and breeze from the lake, it helps keep that low side from being a marshy pit.
-There are a few new fans on greens.  #3 is new for sure, not sure exactly when the others were installed.
-Lots of new tee boxes have been added.  Some of them are home runs that needed to be done.  There's a new white tee on 8 that plays as well as the blue one for a shorter hitter.  There are a lot of new tee boxes on various holes, but the most significant I can think of for the white tees are on 1, 5, and 15.  The 15 one is still in progress and should be good.  It's hard to do much with #5 with the lake, but I think it's a little better.  I'm not a fan of the new one on #1.  It's too short and too far to the right given what it seems "white" should be for the course.  If they add a new color between blue and white such that white is somewhere in the < 5700 range, then it would be fine.  There are enough tee box options, including new back tees on 8 and 13.  I've heard there will be new back tees on 1 and 4 after the clubhouse is done.  There should be another color added somewhere between 5800 and 6500 (plus allow for combo tee options), if it were up to me.  The infrastructure is there already to do it.
-They were adding some new drainage on the blue/black tee box last week.
-There was some subtle tree removal on the left side of the 13th fairway.  Your odds of finding your ball and having a play out of there improved.
-I was a little concerned about the bunker renovation, but I think it's turned out well.  I was concerned things would get a little too "manicured", but it feels like they fit in with the scrub well.  What I was told is that previously when it rained hard, they basically had to rebuild all the bunkers.  Rather than playing any different, the theory was that it would help maintenance significantly.  They had to do a bunch of tests, but were ultimately still able to use on-site sand to fill the new bunkers.  It needed to be sifted a little to drain well enough to take advantage of the underground drainage.
-I'm not a grass expert, but there really seems to be a plan in place for how they want the course to play.  The bent greens were phenomenal into July (yes, you read that right), then they did a bunch of work in August, supposedly to make it play fire fast this fall.  In the past, I never felt like it played firm enough in the fall compared to winter, but if that works, I'll be thrilled.  A week or 2 ago they were trucking some kind of mix and spreading it on all the fairways.


Other than refining the tee mix a little bit with the boxes that already exist, the 3 holes I still feel like could use some TLC are 7, 9, and 11.  7 is never going to be a redan with the tilt of the green, but the left "fairway" and hill is too spongy and maybe not sloped quite right to ever get the ball to roll onto the green from over there.  I still aim over there when I play a longer tee, but that's because it's a good place to get up and down rather than because I expect any particular bounce or roll.  9 is a little tricky for 1st-timers that don't realize it plays longer than the yardage, but it's not super interesting for repetitive play.  I'm not 100% sure what I'd do, but I don't think it plays as well as a comparable hole like the 5th at Wekopa.  That hole has a bunch of different tiers and slopes to work with, but Dormie's is usually just a "hit the middle tier" hole because the front is false, and the back is too small for most players.  A good player could go for that back tier by playing to the middle tier and taking spin off, but I've never seen anybody try or execute it.
11's still the odd ball in my book.  They've cleaned up the scrubby area on the right, but that just means some people that aren't afraid of an approach off of sand can blast it over there and have a better look at the flag.  An alternate short porch off the tee option on the right would be intriguing.  There's some "hog's back" potential to the fairway as well since there's runoff on both sides of the fairway, but there's no real advantage to being in the middle.  If the middle was not blind, but the sides were, that would be fun as well.  Right now, the only place that isn't blind is the sand on the right.  The green is also better attacked from the right side because it slopes left to right with a backstop that you can use if you're in that sandy area.  The tee shot just isn't that interesting and the fairway to green angles/options are incongruent.


Overall, I'm thrilled with the direction I've seen it take.  Cinderella is finally getting her chance to go to the ball after years of nothing but conditioning complaints.  Hopefully people aren't too distracted by the clubhouse and cottage improvements to notice how far the course has come.



Great write-up Roman.


The walking bridges look great and cut 10 minutes minimum off the round for a walker. It's truly a walking course now, though many of us have walked it since it opened.


Agree with #9. The only strategy is to hit the center of the green regardless of where the hole is.


I think #11 is fine but I'm clearly in the minority on that one.

Craig Disher

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Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2020, 02:07:44 PM »
Phil,I'm with you on #11. If my memory is correct, the original plan was to have the mounding on the right half of the fairway continue all the way across on a diagonal. I really like the way the green is arranged against the bunker and for shorter hitters the approach is slightly blind perhaps only revealing the top of the flag. When the course is firm, it's a dream to play. I'm thrilled that it's getting the care it deserves. 

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2020, 08:26:08 PM »
Does anyone know if C&C did the bunker work? They look much cleaner.


C&C did not do the bunkers and they are cleaner and without some of the natural feel. The scar bunkers behind 6 have lost their teeth but all in all the bunkers provide more consistency and playability than in the past and no one will recall the originals
I still find #s 10 and 11 a bit wonky for other than the low single digit handicapper and the regular men's tee on 15 is awful. On the whole the course is moving in the right direction to show its pedigree.
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2020, 08:36:28 PM »
Does anyone know if C&C did the bunker work? They look much cleaner.


C&C did not do the bunkers and they are cleaner and without some of the natural feel. The scar bunkers behind 6 have lost their teeth but all in all the bunkers provide more consistency and playability than in the past and no one will recall the originals
I still find #s 10 and 11 a bit wonky for other than the low single digit handicapper and the regular men's tee on 15 is awful. On the whole the course is moving in the right direction to show its pedigree.


 Jay-17 is a terrific par five.The hole plays longer than the card yardage and the uphill third is a fun shot to hit.

Roman Schwarz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2020, 10:06:46 AM »
What other work has been done on the course besides the walking bridges.  I have always really like the course but it felt like it needed to be finished.  By that I mean some of the tee boxes were kind of ragged and the bunkers never really drained very well.


Working from memory, here's what I can think of:


-A bunch of work was done on the left side of the #4 fairway where balls used to run into the woods and drainage creek.  There's some new mounding, sand, and plants over there.  Doesn't help you get away with anything better than a bogey, but you'll find your ball now.
-Significant tree removal on the left side of 8.  Other than the visual of opening up views and breeze from the lake, it helps keep that low side from being a marshy pit.
-There are a few new fans on greens.  #3 is new for sure, not sure exactly when the others were installed.
-Lots of new tee boxes have been added.  Some of them are home runs that needed to be done.  There's a new white tee on 8 that plays as well as the blue one for a shorter hitter.  There are a lot of new tee boxes on various holes, but the most significant I can think of for the white tees are on 1, 5, and 15.  The 15 one is still in progress and should be good.  It's hard to do much with #5 with the lake, but I think it's a little better.  I'm not a fan of the new one on #1.  It's too short and too far to the right given what it seems "white" should be for the course.  If they add a new color between blue and white such that white is somewhere in the < 5700 range, then it would be fine.  There are enough tee box options, including new back tees on 8 and 13.  I've heard there will be new back tees on 1 and 4 after the clubhouse is done.  There should be another color added somewhere between 5800 and 6500 (plus allow for combo tee options), if it were up to me.  The infrastructure is there already to do it.
-They were adding some new drainage on the blue/black tee box last week.
-There was some subtle tree removal on the left side of the 13th fairway.  Your odds of finding your ball and having a play out of there improved.
-I was a little concerned about the bunker renovation, but I think it's turned out well.  I was concerned things would get a little too "manicured", but it feels like they fit in with the scrub well.  What I was told is that previously when it rained hard, they basically had to rebuild all the bunkers.  Rather than playing any different, the theory was that it would help maintenance significantly.  They had to do a bunch of tests, but were ultimately still able to use on-site sand to fill the new bunkers.  It needed to be sifted a little to drain well enough to take advantage of the underground drainage.
-I'm not a grass expert, but there really seems to be a plan in place for how they want the course to play.  The bent greens were phenomenal into July (yes, you read that right), then they did a bunch of work in August, supposedly to make it play fire fast this fall.  In the past, I never felt like it played firm enough in the fall compared to winter, but if that works, I'll be thrilled.  A week or 2 ago they were trucking some kind of mix and spreading it on all the fairways.


Other than refining the tee mix a little bit with the boxes that already exist, the 3 holes I still feel like could use some TLC are 7, 9, and 11.  7 is never going to be a redan with the tilt of the green, but the left "fairway" and hill is too spongy and maybe not sloped quite right to ever get the ball to roll onto the green from over there.  I still aim over there when I play a longer tee, but that's because it's a good place to get up and down rather than because I expect any particular bounce or roll.  9 is a little tricky for 1st-timers that don't realize it plays longer than the yardage, but it's not super interesting for repetitive play.  I'm not 100% sure what I'd do, but I don't think it plays as well as a comparable hole like the 5th at Wekopa.  That hole has a bunch of different tiers and slopes to work with, but Dormie's is usually just a "hit the middle tier" hole because the front is false, and the back is too small for most players.  A good player could go for that back tier by playing to the middle tier and taking spin off, but I've never seen anybody try or execute it.
11's still the odd ball in my book.  They've cleaned up the scrubby area on the right, but that just means some people that aren't afraid of an approach off of sand can blast it over there and have a better look at the flag.  An alternate short porch off the tee option on the right would be intriguing.  There's some "hog's back" potential to the fairway as well since there's runoff on both sides of the fairway, but there's no real advantage to being in the middle.  If the middle was not blind, but the sides were, that would be fun as well.  Right now, the only place that isn't blind is the sand on the right.  The green is also better attacked from the right side because it slopes left to right with a backstop that you can use if you're in that sandy area.  The tee shot just isn't that interesting and the fairway to green angles/options are incongruent.


Overall, I'm thrilled with the direction I've seen it take.  Cinderella is finally getting her chance to go to the ball after years of nothing but conditioning complaints.  Hopefully people aren't too distracted by the clubhouse and cottage improvements to notice how far the course has come.



Great write-up Roman.


The walking bridges look great and cut 10 minutes minimum off the round for a walker. It's truly a walking course now, though many of us have walked it since it opened.


Agree with #9. The only strategy is to hit the center of the green regardless of where the hole is.


I think #11 is fine but I'm clearly in the minority on that one.


Emphasis added to Phil's quote.  Assuming you mean "fine" as in "OK" rather than "that's a really fine hole!", can't we strive to have it match the quality of the rest of the course?   :)  The standard is high in the neighborhood where it resides.

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2020, 08:25:47 PM »

 Jay-17 is a terrific par five.The hole plays longer than the card yardage and the uphill third is a fun shot to hit.

Tim,
What would think if the third shot on 17 was a par 3?
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club in Pinehurst, NC Enhancements
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2020, 08:50:04 PM »
Look forward to getting back there once everyone is vaccinated.
I question all the need for new tee boxes, as the holes, except 9 & 12, we're open in front and accepted the running shot.  What I feared at Dormie was the miss long ...
 death on every hole!  .... (just about)
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner