Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...

[Tommy Williamsen]

After years of playing either tournaments or bets with friends, I have come to love wandering out on the course all alone. I have plenty of friends and play with them when I want, but now most of my golf is alone and my opponent is the course or my swing. It is nice not to have to have a conversation. There is something serene about being in a beautiful place and enjoying the game without any distractions. Who cares if it is called golf or practice? It is enjoyable.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Doak 8....all day...
Can play plenty of 4s.

[Dan_Callahan]

Golf played alone is ... practice.

I can honestly say that up until this thread, I have never in my life heard someone take the position that playing golf solo is not actually golf.

Hitting balls on the range is practice. Putting and chipping is practice. Playing 18 holes is golf. And you don't even have to keep score for it to be ... golf. This weird, bastardized Schrodinger's cat idea that it isn't real golf unless you are observed by others is silly.

I very much enjoy golfing with my friends. Have a match planned for tomorrow with three other guys, actually. But I first started playing golf when I was in law school and saw it as an opportunity to get away from people for a few hours, turn off my brain, and simply be present and enjoy life. And as has been pointed out, maybe extroverts can't wrap their heads around the idea that a person could actually enjoy playing golf solo.

[Kalen Braley]

Amen to that last post Dan,

Not surprised to see the socialites trying to frame golf as only being a certain way.  If you want to play with others, fine.  If not fine too.  If you want to bet every hole fine, if not who cares.  If you want to play card and pencil fine, if match play great, or not even keep score, great too.

Where is Tom Paul and his Big World explanation when you need him.

[JESII]

I think what people struggle with is the idea that someone would play in the middle of the day, among regular play at the course, as a single.


I am assuming you're not actually doing that...but maybe I made an ass out of you and me...


If you're simply referring to a Doak 4 with a very light tee sheet and good pace of play policies and you can get out mid-afternoon by yourself and have no problem, I'd be surprised if anyone here had a problem with that.




The Doak 8 with not so great policies would be a real conundrum for me.


Awful question, but could anyone post the Doak 8's in the Northeast United States?

[Ira Fishman]

Golf played alone is ... practice.

I can honestly say that up until this thread, I have never in my life heard someone take the position that playing golf solo is not actually golf.

Hitting balls on the range is practice. Putting and chipping is practice. Playing 18 holes is golf. And you don't even have to keep score for it to be ... golf. This weird, bastardized Schrodinger's cat idea that it isn't real golf unless you are observed by others is silly.

I very much enjoy golfing with my friends. Have a match planned for tomorrow with three other guys, actually. But I first started playing golf when I was in law school and saw it as an opportunity to get away from people for a few hours, turn off my brain, and simply be present and enjoy life. And as has been pointed out, maybe extroverts can't wrap their heads around the idea that a person could actually enjoy playing golf solo.

+1. But if it makes the anti-solo people feel better, the entanglement principle tells us that when I am enjoying playing alone, there is another golfer in the Universe doing exactly the same thing at the same time so I am really not alone.


Ira

[David Wuthrich]

I would have to go with good pace of play and a Doak 4.

[Kalen Braley]

DS 4:
A modestly interesting course, with a couple of distinctive holes among the 18, or at least some scenic interest and decent golf. Also reserved for some very good courses that are much too short and narrow to provide sufficient challenge for accomplished golfers.

DS 8:
One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

A few courses I have ranked as 8s are: Pasatiempo, Chambers Bay, Wine Valley, and Gozzer Ranch. And if one of those "drawbacks" is the round takes a bit longer, I'd be fine with that.

[Craig Sweet]

I played yesterday at my local 9 hole course. It is maybe a Doak 1.....My buddy and I teed off at 1:40pm and finished up on 18 at 6:00 pm....It was a horrible, slow, mess.  Here's the thing, this course is just crappy enough to attract a lot of hackers and newbies on the weekends, thus the slow play.


I usually walk nine, alone, early in the morning. Takes me 1:15 minutes.....course plays a little over 3100 yards...If I'm going to play a Doak 1 or even a Doak 4 it had better be in something less than 3:15 minutes...

[David Ober]

This strange attitude comes from the ridiculous US obsession with every card counting...


In GB&I, where most rounds don’t “count” for anything, most golf is practice.

I'm actually with you on that. Every card should NOT count. However ... we should have many rounds a month that DO count. Anything even semi-organized should be a "competition round" and only those and other competitive rounds should count. Hate our "every round counts" system.

[Kalen Braley]

Well the reality is most cards actually don't count in the US cause far more players don't carry a handicap vs those who do.

But of those who belongs to clubs, which is a much smaller subset of overall golfers, I'm guessing that ratio is flipped.

[Ally Mcintosh]

This strange attitude comes from the ridiculous US obsession with every card counting...


In GB&I, where most rounds don’t “count” for anything, most golf is practice.

I'm actually with you on that. Every card should NOT count. However ... we should have many rounds a month that DO count. Anything even semi-organized should be a "competition round" and only those and other competitive rounds should count. Hate our "every round counts" system.

As it stands at the moment, I only play a handful of counting rounds each year... The rest are made up of matchplay comps, social matches, a few social non-matches, the odd charity / society day and the odd solo round. That said, I’ve set myself a target to play a few more medal rounds.


Guess it’s just different cultures...


Anyway, we’re heading further off-topic.

[Michael Felton]

This strange attitude comes from the ridiculous US obsession with every card counting...


In GB&I, where most rounds don’t “count” for anything, most golf is practice.

I'm actually with you on that. Every card should NOT count. However ... we should have many rounds a month that DO count. Anything even semi-organized should be a "competition round" and only those and other competitive rounds should count. Hate our "every round counts" system.

Stick on the slope on your rangefinder and your round doesn’t count for handicap. You can do that.


Separately - I’m lucky enough to belong to a Doak 8 and could go out on a midweek evening and play 18 in 2 hours on my own if I wanted to (or could get there at the moment). I have plenty of opportunity when I’m there to play with others but sometimes I love to play on my own. Just me and the course.


That’s a hard question though. I’d get to play a whole lot more golf with the 4. I just think the 8 would give more variety and interest so with heavy heart I’d go with that one.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm actually with you on that. Every card should NOT count. However ... we should have many rounds a month that DO count. Anything even semi-organized should be a "competition round" and only those and other competitive rounds should count. Hate our "every round counts" system.

You mean something like a system where most clubs have a counting competition once or twice a week?  Sounds like the UK or Australia.....

[Ken Moum]

Ally, Robin, et al... nothing wrong with playing by yourself. It’s just not golf.


Golf is a game... which means competition. Do you go bowling by yourself? Darts? If yes, don’t you just consider that practice, not a game? As I said, single golf is masturbation... not anything wrong with it... it’s just not golf.


Also... golf is a NOUN, not a VERB. People play golf, they don’t go “golfing.” How the hell did that abomination get started? Does anyone ever go “tennising?” 

What utter bullshit. Did anyone ever call someone a tenniser? Or a darter?


Golfers go golfing, runners go running, riders go riding, shooters go shooting, hunters go hunting.


Tennis players play tennis, baseball players play baseball,etc.


Insisting that golfers aren't golfing is a silly affectation.


And,by the way, a very good case can be made that golf is a sport like shooting, running, horseback riding, because there's no defense involved. Games like football GAMES, baseball GAMES, basketball GAMES, all involve both sides playing one ball using defense against the other side.


But I assume you'll ignore this logic.


Good day

[James Reader]

Completely agree Ken. Although St Andrews Links tweeting today to encourage people to “golf the Castle course” does jar a bit!

[John Kavanaugh]

Do you people realize that this is Whitaker trolling you? Maybe you should practice real world social skills out on the course before you get fished out of your home.

[David Ober]

Golf played alone is ... practice.

I can honestly say that up until this thread, I have never in my life heard someone take the position that playing golf solo is not actually golf.

Hitting balls on the range is practice. Putting and chipping is practice. Playing 18 holes is golf. And you don't even have to keep score for it to be ... golf. This weird, bastardized Schrodinger's cat idea that it isn't real golf unless you are observed by others is silly.

I very much enjoy golfing with my friends. Have a match planned for tomorrow with three other guys, actually. But I first started playing golf when I was in law school and saw it as an opportunity to get away from people for a few hours, turn off my brain, and simply be present and enjoy life. And as has been pointed out, maybe extroverts can't wrap their heads around the idea that a person could actually enjoy playing golf solo.

I'm (mostly) joking when I say that golf played alone is practice. I simply prefer to play with people and compete. Golf is all about the challenge of improvement and the pursuit of "going low" for me. The fact that I get to do it with others and then have a couple few cocktails afterwards is a great bonus.


But the extrovert thing is spot on. Introverts and extroverts do seem to experience life and derive pleasure from very different things. And that's great.

[Duncan Cheslett]

A question that is hypothetical to the point of being meaningless.


Doak 8s are pretty thin on the ground. Most people don't have a realistic opportunity of joining one because of geography and economics - these places tend to be pretty exclusive and expensive. Also, they can be very busy - particularly in the UK where access to the vast majority of top courses is determined purely by the depth of one's pockets, not connections. The days of members just being able to rock up and play whenever they want are long gone at most such clubs - the place is rammed with very profitable visitors. The pace of play argument really makes no sense.


I'm happy with the middle ground. A Doak 6 (Cavendish) as my local club where I can play as much as I like and pretty much whenever I want for under a grand a year. And Silloth as my second club on the coast. I'm guessing at a Doak 7.


As for solo golf - I love it! For me much of the pleasure in golf comes from the surroundings and from hitting the occasional perfect strike. I just like hitting golf balls. I couldn't really care less what I score. For those of us who are comfortable in our own company a solo early morning or evening round (or even just a few holes) is balm for the soul. I also consider it far better practice than pounding balls on the range.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you love to hit balls and don’t care about score do you bother to aim at anything?

[Duncan Cheslett]

Every club that I have joined has had at least one asshole that you need to learn how to tolerate.

They certainly will have after you've joined! 

[David Ober]

I'm actually with you on that. Every card should NOT count. However ... we should have many rounds a month that DO count. Anything even semi-organized should be a "competition round" and only those and other competitive rounds should count. Hate our "every round counts" system.

You mean something like a system where most clubs have a counting competition once or twice a week?  Sounds like the UK or Australia.....

I mean exactly something like that. :-)

[Paul Jones]

The older I get, but more I care about having fun playing golf with friends.  I would join a Doak 4 over 8 every time.  I can go visit the 8s on golf trips.

[John Kavanaugh]

It takes about a year and a half being a member of a D8 to wish the belt knotching douchcicles would just stay away. I never went back to Prarie Dunes after GCA held a mashie.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Doak 8s are pretty thin on the ground. Most people don't have a realistic opportunity of joining one because of geography and economics - these places tend to be pretty exclusive and expensive. Also, they can be very busy - particularly in the UK where access to the vast majority of top courses is determined purely by the depth of one's pockets, not connections. The days of members just being able to rock up and play whenever they want are long gone at most such clubs - the place is rammed with very profitable visitors. The pace of play argument really makes no sense.

I’m not sure that is the case for all Doak 8’s... certainly a lot of them in the US remain quiet enough for members to just rock up.


In Ireland, Portmarnock keeps a decent balance with plenty of members only times and the third nine always available... I’m guessing RCD isn’t too bad either although not sure... Lahinch & Ballybunion are rammed almost all of the time though.


What are the “quietest” 8’s in Scotland or England?