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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2020, 11:24:42 AM »
Every club that I have joined has had at least one asshole that you need to learn how to tolerate.

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2020, 12:02:54 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 12:19:36 PM by Robin_Hiseman »
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2020, 12:05:51 PM »
The premise is flawed - not all Doak 4’s are the same. Give me a cow pasture with an interesting set of greens that stimp at no less than six which roll true with a 1st tee that is always open and I am good to go. Toss in a total lack of pretense for good measure.


Also, I grew up playing by myself. I still prefer to do so today.


Bogey

« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 12:09:23 PM by Michael H »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2020, 06:22:14 PM »
Ally, Robin, et al... nothing wrong with playing by yourself. It’s just not golf.


Golf is a game... which means competition. Do you go bowling by yourself? Darts? If yes, don’t you just consider that practice, not a game? As I said, single golf is masturbation... not anything wrong with it... it’s just not golf.


Also... golf is a NOUN, not a VERB. People play golf, they don’t go “golfing.” How the hell did that abomination get started? Does anyone ever go “tennising?”  ::)
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2020, 06:39:09 PM »
Well Mike:


The Golfing Union of Ireland was founded in 1891 so the verb “golfing” clearly started a long time ago. I think you’ll find it in common use in early literature.


And isn’t the competition often against the course? Practice, game, what does it matter? You’re still playing golf. Do you consider that you are not playing golf when part of a three-ball with no counting card?

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2020, 06:57:24 PM »
Ally, Robin, et al... nothing wrong with playing by yourself. It’s just not golf.


Golf is a game... which means competition. Do you go bowling by yourself? Darts? If yes, don’t you just consider that practice, not a game? As I said, single golf is masturbation... not anything wrong with it... it’s just not golf.


You folks who would rather get a root canal with a rusty knife than golf alone are entitled to your opinions. But to say someone who plays a round of golf solo isn’t actually playing golf is asinine.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2020, 07:31:41 PM »
Golf is a game... which means competition. Do you go bowling by yourself? Darts? If yes, don’t you just consider that practice, not a game? As I said, single golf is masturbation... not anything wrong with it... it’s just not golf.


Isn’t a medal tournament essentially solo golf?  Other than someone attesting your score, a medal competition could go off in singles. Given your description of solo golf, is a foursome in a medal event a circle jerk? ::)

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2020, 07:52:15 PM »
On occasion...

Robin_Hiseman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2020, 06:16:54 AM »
I guess it would be paradoxical to shout 'Golf Wankers Unite!', given Mike's definition, so instead 'Golf Wankers Disperse and Pleasure Yourself!'


For the record, this year I've so far played 25 rounds (a good year!). 19 in the company of others and 6 crafty knuckle shuffles by myself. That for me is a good split and I've enjoyed those solo games immensely and the quiet time they have offered.


I tried last week to play a frame of snooker on my own and it was hopeless. I couldn't do it. Some sports are not suited to solo play.


This discussion could diverge further into the consideration of extroversion and introversion. I think we can gather Mike is an extrovert in a sport that well suits those with introverted tendencies. I know I am an introvert. I don't need external sources of stimulation to maintain a sense of wellbeing. Mike's strong viewpoint backs up his extroverted character trait and those of us who know him enjoy his company, his gregarious nature and good humour. He's good to be around. However, he is wrong to castigate in such strong terms those whose character traits differ from his own. We experience the world in a different way and, to be honest, these lockdowns we have experienced during the Covid crisis have been much easier to endure if you're naturally introverted. I am quite comfortable in my own company, as are many others. That extends to time on the golf course and I see no validity in the viewpoint that this is somehow deranged or perverted.



2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2020, 08:01:59 AM »
Golf is a game... which means competition.


Mike - I've played basketball most of my life. My first love. Put the jersey on w 4 others and some zebra's and I am competing. Late in the day I take the ball out to the court with a rim, shooting, dribbling I'm still plating basketball just not competing. Same thing w/ golf. If you keep your competitors card and they have an award at the end it's the competition. Late day 9 holes as the sun sets, while no one is around it's still the same game. Put the ball in the hole.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2020, 08:26:55 AM »
Mike,


I used to play Table Tennis quite a lot and had the other half of the table put upright to practice which helped to react better to unpredictability.


There is also running and cycling both exercises that you appreciate when doing on your own.


Going back to golf when I am playing on my own I tend to play with two balls - One is called Jekyll (conservative) and the other Hyde (risky and more aggressive) :) this can be an eye opener to see which is better or worse.


Cheers
Ben

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2020, 08:46:27 AM »
When you guys bowl alone do you look around the other lanes when you roll a strike? I never know what to do with my hands as I’m waiting for my ball to return.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2020, 09:16:40 AM »
... but you need a tee time to play and a round will take you 4.5 hours. Or would you choose a Doak 4, where you never need a tee time and you can get around the course as a single in 3 hours?


Dan, my problem with this hypothetical is that in my experiences, it's flipped. The 8 has a generally more appealing culture of pace of play and first tee accessibility while the 4 will do what they can to get people on the golf course.


Using your hypothetical, I prefer the golf culture and would sacrifice architectural chops to attain it. Far more important than the architecture, to me, is the maintenance. If one is measurably better in the direction of firm and playable, I'd choose that 9 out of 10.

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2020, 09:22:19 AM »
If you "never need a tee time," aren't you either charging a lot or cutting corners?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2020, 09:29:02 AM »
I don’t think a lot of 8’s try to make sure that a 25 hdcp can win every bet. Any 8 is going to have a few holes where the 25 just needs to concede for the benefit of all involved.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2020, 10:37:49 AM »
I don’t understand those last two posts...

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2020, 10:50:11 AM »
Aren't most people looking for a middle ground--a good enough golf course with enough friends and a culture they like?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2020, 10:58:40 AM »
Some very interesting premises on this thread.

Given how divided and fractured everyone is right now, I know more assholes I'd rather not play with than those who I would, especially given that politics and other nonsense is inevitable to come up over a 4 hour round.

But even if that wasn't the case, there are some of us who rather play a great course on the regular, even if meant sacrificing on a few things. It just may be possible that busy introverts like golf too...  ;)

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2020, 11:05:19 AM »
I don’t understand those last two posts...

Jim, what I was getting at is if you "never" need a tee time, then I think you have fewer members than most clubs I'm familiar with.  In which case, in order to meet expenses, you would need to charge a pretty penny, or cut corners on operation and necessary maintenance.  All of this assumes a post-Covid world.  I'm not aware of any club in my area (MD/DC) at the moment without tee times. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 11:07:20 AM by Bernie Bell »

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2020, 11:17:11 AM »
Dan

With regards your OP, it's rare the choice is so stark as you paint it but I think if push came to shove I'd opt for the course that was more freely available.

Niall

ps. never really been good at Tom's scale so not certain about the drop in quality from going from an 8 to a 4 but as someone who can get some form of enjoyment out of even a basic course then that probably has a bearing.

pps. you can also put me down as someone who is happy to be a golf wanker.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2020, 11:32:00 AM »
Dan

With regards your OP, it's rare the choice is so stark as you paint it but I think if push came to shove I'd opt for the course that was more freely available.



I agree, but I thought framing it in those extreme terms helped me think more clearly about what is more important to me. And like you, for my day-to-day golf, I would opt for a freely available course over great architecture. It also made me realize just how important pace of play is to my golf enjoyment.

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2020, 11:44:37 AM »
When I’m not golfing I spend most of my day watching and judging other golfers. My favorites are the golf cucks out playing alone watching the other groups with the hope of one day being asked to join. Poor little cucks pushing their little carts. Push, shoot, swing, repeat, over the hill they go.


Wow. Yep. LOL

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2020, 11:50:55 AM »
Golf played alone is ... practice.


I would never join a Doak 8 if it meant I didn't have a group of at least 10 to 20 guys to wager with a couple/few times a week. That is my number one deciding factor for joining a club.


Number two would be quality of the course.


Number three would be the bar/restaurant scene, as my wife and I both love dinner at the club once a week.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2020, 12:48:52 PM »
Golf played alone is ... practice.

True. I don't think you can even report your rounds when playing alone for USGA handicap.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hypothetical: would you rather join a Doak 8 ...
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2020, 12:57:30 PM »
This strange attitude comes from the ridiculous US obsession with every card counting...


In GB&I, where most rounds don’t “count” for anything, most golf is practice.