Five par threes

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,


I’m proud of Rolling Green’s five and admire Mannies five but help me with the other Philly Flynns that have five.
I see Woodcrest has five

I thought Huntingdon Valley did, too, but I guess I misremembered.  Oh no!  I guess I will have to go re-route a few of my courses! 


Incidentally, the main reason for having an extra par-3 is not because I care whether the course has four short holes or five, but because it makes the routing puzzle much easier to have the flexibility.  It allows you to use some of your best holes the way you want them, instead of putting the tee in another spot to make the connection.  We did this at Sedge Valley this year, adding in a new par-3 [the short 5th] to connect the 4th green and 6th tee without having a long walk.  I'd been trying to find an alternate location for the 6th tee to reduce that walk, but I think most will agree that my original spot for it is the best spot.

Update the Richard Petty reference to Jeff Gordon in the Confidential Guide while you're re-visiting HVCC. 


Manufacturers' five par-3s are especially keen.

[Bret Lawrence]

My home course East Mountain Golf Course in Waterbury, CT  has 5 Par 3’s.  The 5th, 8th, 13th, 16th and 17th. 
Wayne Stiles designed the course so that todays 2nd was a Par 3 and todays 16th was a short Pat 4, but the two holes were swapped about 20 years ago when too many golf balls were landing in peoples yard adjoining the course on the short Par 4 16th.


Country Club of New Canaan now has 5 Par 3’s since Andrew Green redesigned the 10th hole from a short Par 4 to a long Par 3.  It appears the club needed more room for their pool house.  The Par 3’s at Country Club of New Canaan are a fine set of Par 3’s with my favorite being the 5th hole.  The Par 4’s at CC of New Canaan leave a little bit to be desired.

[Ira Fishman]

I completely forgot that our home course--Kenwood in Maryland--has five part 3s. It was designed by the owner and a friend, but the Par 3s are a good set.


Ira

[Tim Gavrich]

Mike Strantz was big on 5 x par 3s:

Caledonia - 3, 6, 9, 11, 17
True Blue - 3, 7, 11, 14, 16
Bulls Bay - 3, 7, 12, 14, 17
Tobacco Road - 3, 6, 8, 14, 17
Tot Hill Farm - 3, 6, 11, 13, 15
MPCC Shore - 3, 7, 9, 11, 14

[Jim Sherma]

For the top players these days par threes and the second shots on some par fives are the only time they will be hitting more than a short or maybe a mid iron into a green. More par 3's probably makes for a more balanced test at the top end of the distribution as long as a few of them are sufficiently long.

[Kalen Braley]

.Does it bother you if course has five?

To answer the original question.  Seeing all the well-esteemed and highly ranked courses mentioned in 3 pages (so far), I'd day the answer is a pretty definitive no.

[Richard DeMenna]

Ridgeview CC in Duluth, MN a William Watson course. 6 par 3’s, 8 par 4’s and 4 par 5’s. Tough as heck when the wind from Lake Superior is blowing.

[Matt MacIver]

Providence across the street from Tom’s NLE CLT GL has five, unfortunately four of them play +/- one club difference from each tee box unless the wind is up.

[Tom_Doak]

Providence across the street from Tom’s NLE CLT GL has five, unfortunately four of them play +/- one club difference from each tee box unless the wind is up.

I've heard this complaint a lot at clubs where we have consulted over the years.


It can be solved through course set-up.  It doesn't require more construction.  Extra tee space on the par-3's that you use on a part-time basis is a good thing.

[Matthew Rose]

There's a muni in Lincoln, NE I used to play called Mahoney Park. Has six par-threes and five of them are literally the same length, plus/minus five yards. 2-190, 6-195, 9-195, 12-130, 14-194, 17-190. The one listed at 194 always made me laugh; it's the only hole out of 18 that doesn't have a yardage ending in zero or five. So, assuming you have little to no wind, you are probably hitting the same club to a par three FIVE TIMES.

All four par-fives are listed at 525 yards.

It opened in the 70s and I'm not sure it's been touched.

It's pretty bizarre the longer I think about it.

[Forrest Richardson]

Have always enjoyed our designs with 5 par3s. Especially if the routing and space supports it.

[David Ober]

My home course, Victoria Club (1903) in Riverside, California, USA, has 5 par-3s and 5 par-5s, with a finish that goes 3, 5, 5, 3, 5, 5.

[Thomas Dai]

The SI on par-3’s are often too much on the high side.
If a course has 5 par-3’s it sometimes seems that they’ve been graded SI 18-14 almost automatically which probably shouldn’t be the case.
Atb

[Erik J. Barzeski]

The SI on par-3’s are often too much on the high side.
If a course has 5 par-3’s it sometimes seems that they’ve been graded SI 18-14 almost automatically which probably shouldn’t be the case.

Why? Par threes are typically the higher stroke index holes and par fives the lower. Why should the addition of a par three move them down? Instead of being 15-18, they'd be 14-18.

[Steven Blake]

Surprised no one has mentioned the 5 one shot holes at the Links of Lawsonia.


#4 uphill gem, #7 box car hole, #10 true half par hole, #12 is a beauty with great internal contours, and #14 the downhill sporty with a pesdo infinity green.


Steven Blake

[Bret Lawrence]

Wethersfield Country Club in Connecticut, the former site of the Sammy Davis Jr. Greater Hartford Open has 5 Par 3’s and they are all long.  The par 3’s seem to be the courses’ best defense.

[Mark Mammel]

It seems well established that many great courses have 5 par threes! I don't think these two in the Twin Cities have been mentioned, both with 5 excellent and varied par threes.

White Bear Yacht Club- front 9 has 3 par 3s, 3 par 4s, 3 par 5s
Town & Country Club- 2 on the front, 3 on the back, including 18.

[Tom_Doak]

Wethersfield Country Club in Connecticut, the former site of the Sammy Davis Jr. Greater Hartford Open has 5 Par 3’s and they are all long.  The par 3’s seem to be the courses’ best defense.

There is a lot of this line of thinking in courses that want to host tournaments -- the idea that the par-3's are the only place where you can make a Tour pro hit a long iron approach shot.


That's true, but it also lacks imagination.  When we started Memorial Park, one of the first things Brooks Kopeka said to me was "If we just don't make all the par-3's over 200 yards, we'll be heroes."  He much prefers the shorter par-3 with nasty trouble awaiting a miss.

[Jeff_Brauer]

We had some interesting discussions on green design at our recent ASGCA meeting.  In one breakout group, a few were touting the old Ross adage that you can make par 3 holes harder because the ball is on a tee and multiple tees allow all players a chance at success from their shorter distances, which you can't always control on longer holes.  Then, one member, not shy about challenging typical gca mantras countered by saying he likes to make most par 3 holes easier.  His theory is that the average public course player looks forward to these holes as their best chance for par or birdie and he wouldn't want to mess that up.      I find it hard to argue that theory on public course design at least.  And, to be honest, there are a lot of courses where the routing would be better if we just accepted that extra par 3 hole rather than forcing something in just to get to standard par 72 or only 4 par 3 holes. 


Echoing TD's statement on Brooks and par 3 holes, when I worked with Notah Begay III, we had one par 3 with room to add a back tee, but he hit a few test shots and thought the green was really set up for a 179-190 shot, not something over 200 yards.  All the times I worked with pros, I was often surprised that they considered long shots hard, whereas amateur armchair architects (and a few professional ones) seem to think no shot is too hard for them.

[Tom_Doak]

Echoing TD's statement on Brooks and par 3 holes, when I worked with Notah Begay III, we had one par 3 with room to add a back tee, but he hit a few test shots and thought the green was really set up for a 179-190 shot, not something over 200 yards.  All the times I worked with pros, I was often surprised that they considered long shots hard, whereas amateur armchair architects (and a few professional ones) seem to think no shot is too hard for them.

Oh, Brooks wanted the short holes to be hard.  He thinks anything hard is an advantage to him, because a lot of pros don't like it that way.  But he also thought that when we build a par-3 over 200 yards we are afraid to make them hard, and we make the targets so big that it's just boring for those guys and there are a lot of 3's and not much else.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I'm resurrecting this old thread because my club is considering some work that would add a fifth par 3, and I was curious what other courses have at least 5 par 3's.  From the discussion above, it looks like the following is the start of a list.  If you know of others, would love to hear about them. 



Addington
Banff
Bedford Springs
Bel Air
Berkshire
Beverly
Caledonia
Capilano
Carthage
Charles River
Chechessee
Claremont
Flossmoor
Galloway
Golden Valley
Golspe
Hartefeld
Highland Links
Jasper
MPCC Shore
Mountain View
Pacific Dunes
Pacific Grove
Pasatiempo
Plum Hollow
Pumpkin Ridge
Ravisloe
Spring Brook (NJ)
St. George’s
St. Louis
Stonehaven GC
Stonewall (both courses)
Swinley Forest
Trillium
Witch Hollow

Surprised this hasnt been mentioned yet, but the next host of the US Open has 5 par 3s...;-)...and I played it 2 weeks ago:


LACC North.


#s 4, 7, 9, 11, 15


But, #7 can play to 290+

[Rick Lane]

CC of Fairfield has 5 par threes…..

[Mark Pearce]

I'm mildly amused to realise that I'm a member of one club with a course on this list (with 6) and one on the other (with 2).

[Ira Fishman]

I'm mildly amused to realise that I'm a member of one club with a course on this list (with 6) and one on the other (with 2).

Mark,


I have still failed in my quest to convince my wife to move to Scotland, but should I ever prove successful, it likely will be because of our overlapping love for Balcomie and Elie.


Ira

[Mark Pearce]

I'm mildly amused to realise that I'm a member of one club with a course on this list (with 6) and one on the other (with 2).

Mark,


I have still failed in my quest to convince my wife to move to Scotland, but should I ever prove successful, it likely will be because of our overlapping love for Balcomie and Elie.


Ira

If there's anything I can do to help with that quest.....