News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2020, 02:49:01 PM »


Maxinkuckee may not be on the list because the first two holes and last I believe are quite plane and were not remodeled by Langford & Moreau.


If they were all like those other six people would think it was too wild!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2020, 02:52:14 PM »
They want a golf course that says it is 7000 yards, that plays 5500.


When I was working on the planning for PGA West, with Mr Dye, he said in order to make the course playable for the average guy, we would "have to put the tees at 5800 yards, but lie and say they are 6200 yards, otherwise those guys won't play them".

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2020, 02:59:41 PM »
They want a golf course that says it is 7000 yards, that plays 5500.
When I was working on the planning for PGA West, with Mr Dye, he said in order to make the course playable for the average guy, we would "have to put the tees at 5800 yards, but lie and say they are 6200 yards, otherwise those guys won't play them".
Measure from the very back of tees to the very back of greens by taking the longest possible route along the outside of doglegs?
And measure along the ground not through the air for downslopes and hills etc.
Metres to yds and vice-versa can be source of confusion as well! :)
atb
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 03:01:56 PM by Thomas Dai »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2020, 03:50:17 PM »

Measure from the very back of tees to the very back of greens by taking the longest possible route along the outside of doglegs?
And measure along the ground not through the air for downslopes and hills etc.
Metres to yds and vice-versa can be source of confusion as well! :)
atb


My favorite mis-measurement story is that when they added tees to Shinnecock Hills for the US Open in 2004, they gained 175 yards on the ground, but when they remeasured the course they had only gained 75 because they had fudged a bit for the previous Open.

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2020, 04:04:43 PM »
Chet William's The Needler, a Par 3 addition to Whispering Pines, is a significant omission.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2020, 04:26:11 PM »
Nice column from Lorne Rubenstein on Royal Worlington and some other 9-holers he has played:
https://scoregolf.com/blog/lorne-rubenstein/the-finest-nines/

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2020, 08:55:21 PM »


Maxinkuckee may not be on the list because the first two holes and last I believe are quite plane and were not remodeled by Langford & Moreau.


If they were all like those other six people would think it was too wild!


Funny.  I was looking back at the photos from my late season round several years ago and the holes L&M renovated are wild.


Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2020, 09:01:37 PM »
I feel not having Threetops on the list is a definite miss.  It is one of the earlier short courses prior to them being en vogue!


jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2020, 09:03:07 PM »
They want a golf course that says it is 7000 yards, that plays 5500.
When I was working on the planning for PGA West, with Mr Dye, he said in order to make the course playable for the average guy, we would "have to put the tees at 5800 yards, but lie and say they are 6200 yards, otherwise those guys won't play them".
Measure from the very back of tees to the very back of greens by taking the longest possible route along the outside of doglegs?
And measure along the ground not through the air for downslopes and hills etc.
Metres to yds and vice-versa can be source of confusion as well! :)
atb


Smartest thing I ever did was change the middle set of tees to Blue in color-almost overnight we had an entire membership playing 6200 yards and telling their friends at cocktail parties they play the blues
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2020, 10:06:39 PM »
Pinehurst #3 belongs on this list. Incredible greens with lots of little bumps and pockets that are just impossible to get near, and when they have the greens firm and fast making pars with wedge in hand can be difficult. A ton of fun that's just a wonderful short game test for good players and a pleasure for average or weaker golfers.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 of the best sub-6,000 yd courses in the World
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2020, 11:55:35 PM »
They want a golf course that says it is 7000 yards, that plays 5500.


When I was working on the planning for PGA West, with Mr Dye, he said in order to make the course playable for the average guy, we would "have to put the tees at 5800 yards, but lie and say they are 6200 yards, otherwise those guys won't play them".


I don't know how it works in the States, but at UK courses each hole is independently measured by the governing body and its official length marked with a coloured disc or "plate" on the tee. Each set of tees is in this way marked with a set of differently coloured plates - measured to the middle of the green. These are the distances on the card.

The tee blocks where golfers actually play from are moved around on a daily basis to spread wear and tear. There is nothing to stop the greens crew siting the blocks 20 or 30 yards short of the official plate on each hole. A 6700 yard course can in this way be reduced to under 6000 yards without most people noticing or anyone having the "indignity" of moving forward a set of tees. It is rare to see the back tee blocks anywhere near the back plates.

It is also common to to build a tiny back tee on certain holes which will rarely if ever be used. It might stretch the hole by 30 yards on the card even though hardly anyone will ever play that yardage.

In Senior open competitions the yellow tee blocks are often positioned on the ladies' tee pads. Everyone knows what's going on but there is a universally beneficial conspiracy of silence!  ;)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 01:34:45 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2020, 06:52:50 AM »
Rutland Water has a very quirky and challenging par 3 course which is great fun and don't take the scorecard and marker!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2020, 08:41:36 AM »
Imagine playing these under 6,000 yds with a rolled-back golf ball?
The best 9-holers too and the par-3's as well.
:)

atb

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 25 best sub-6,000 yd, 50 best 9-hole & 25 best par-3 courses in the World
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2020, 11:38:48 AM »
Very disappointing Aiken Golf Club didn't make the list. IMO.