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JMEvensky

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2020, 03:57:12 PM »



Bingo!



And why we attributing even an iota of credibility to Paul Azinger's golf-architecture IQ ?





No reason to limit it to only his golf architecture IQ-- I can't imagine a subject upon which his opinion is credible.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2020, 04:00:33 PM »
 We have established that the heathland/parkland distinction is irrelevant to trees on golf courses in America.


 I try to study one classic American golf course architect as much as possible and he loved trees. When they needed to be kept on the course he designed with them in mind. They came into play usually as doglegs.
As for planting trees he suggested that they separate holes, provide a backdrop and shade on a hot day. Don’t recall him saying “f with your shot”.


The problem is that trees planted after his courses were designed in many cases are in the way of the intended design. As one approaches the green these additions even ruin the original design at the green.


Great design by this guy was for the wayward golfer who needed to recover not as much for those who hit it down the middle and on the green.


Many golfers have 25 years or more experience playing courses with too many trees in play. They accept the penalty and adapt their game. Many come to believe the trees are necessary.


For me these trees make courses homogeneous. The land gets covered up and approaches from distance to the green are limited.


If you have a crappy designer or a flat boring property I can sympathize with the desire for some obstructions like trees or bunkers.


But great designers love the land as the chief hazard which challenges all randomly rather than some assuredly.




The most common trajectory of dissatisfaction with tree removal is hate—acceptance—love.
AKA Mayday

Kalen Braley

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2020, 04:01:07 PM »
Tough crowd, why all the Azinger hate?  Lest we forget his break through?

"Azinger was the U.S. Ryder Cup captain for the 2008 at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky. He led the team to its first victory over the European squad since 1999. The team's victory was largely credited to his innovative strategy."

JMEvensky

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2020, 04:24:11 PM »
Tough crowd, why all the Azinger hate?  Lest we forget his break through?

"Azinger was the U.S. Ryder Cup captain for the 2008 at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky. He led the team to its first victory over the European squad since 1999. The team's victory was largely credited to his innovative strategy."



Ask some of his peers their opinions--doubt if the pods will be mentioned.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2020, 04:50:43 PM »
For the sake of clarity below is a photo of a heathland golf course in the UK - note the ground covering, much of it is heather.
Heather is hardy, turns purple at certain times of the year, grows well in rugged areas, likes acidic soil and is low growing. It doesn't like shade. It also grows on what is termed 'moorland' plus near the seashore including links land. It grows on similar landscapes within Continental Europe as well as GB&I.



This link to the EIGGA website article explains more - https://www.eigca.org/news/109699/Spotlight-on-Heather-on-Golf-Courses

atb

PS - note that the first 5 letters of the word 'heathland' are the same as the first 5 letters of the word 'heather'.



Niall C

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2020, 05:08:32 PM »
   I agree that there is technically no "heathland" in America.  But there is also very little "linksland" either.  Yet there are many attempts to build "links" (or "links-like") courses here.  Aren't there "heathland-like" courses here too.  Is Merion "heathland-like?"  Is the deforested Oakmont "heathland-like?"  Having played at least two real heathland courses (Walton Heath and Woodhall Spa), Merion and Oakmont seem to me to be similar.  And I assume that similarity is in the lack of trees as a playing obstacle.  I can't think of a great parkland course that doesn't use trees as an obstacle. Certainly Olympia Fields did, and Winged Foot will in a couple of weeks.  And that's after a major Gil Hanse renovation.


Jim


I've got to think the turf is the key. Interested to hear from those that have played a lot of UK heathland and the US version.


Niall

John Mayhugh

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2020, 05:31:59 PM »
There is really no such thing as a heathland course in the USA

Wait - does this mean that all of the people that refer to tall grass as "heather" are mis-informed?!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2020, 05:58:15 PM »
   I agree that there is technically no "heathland" in America.  But there is also very little "linksland" either.  Yet there are many attempts to build "links" (or "links-like") courses here.  Aren't there "heathland-like" courses here too.  Is Merion "heathland-like?"  Is the deforested Oakmont "heathland-like?"  Having played at least two real heathland courses (Walton Heath and Woodhall Spa), Merion and Oakmont seem to me to be similar.  And I assume that similarity is in the lack of trees as a playing obstacle.  I can't think of a great parkland course that doesn't use trees as an obstacle. Certainly Olympia Fields did, and Winged Foot will in a couple of weeks.  And that's after a major Gil Hanse renovation.

You have totally lost me. Merion is nothing like a heathland course and is completely parkland.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2020, 06:11:49 PM »
Mike C,

I'm glad you didn't call out White Fir's, these would be all over the place on my dream course!  ;D




That’s a spruce...blue spruce to be exact fwiw
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2020, 06:34:45 PM »
‘Heathland’ as a term gets banded about.
Here’s a piece that may help understand what heathland (and it’s close cousin moorland) actually is - https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/habitats/heathland-and-moorland
Atb
The word is bandied from to bandy or bat back and forth. If your going to use it get it right. If it was a typo your forgiven. ;D
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2020, 11:44:02 PM »

Thanks for the tip John.

I guess if I find myself in Colorado I won't be buying trees from these guys then!   ;D


https://www.thetreecenter.com/concolor-white-fir/

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2020, 05:14:49 AM »
Didn’t Harry Colt say something like “trees should be the scenery not on the stage?

My understanding it that the term ‘parkland’ course originates from the period when golf in the U.K. especially was moving inland and being played in the often ornate and designer planned and laid out gardens of stately homes, big houses and their estates. Such areas were sometimes referred to as the estates ‘park’, hence ‘parkland’.

These estate ‘parklands’ could be very large and were usually grazed by sheep, cattle, goats, horses etc who nibbled away at any vegetation including any self seeding saplings that were inclined to grow. Thus such ‘parks’ were generally not tree covered and what trees there were, which were relatively few, tended to be large specimen trees that had been there for years, maybe decades, as the estate houses ‘parks’ were laid out long before golf came inland.

Atb


Correct. This is why Capability Brown and Humphry Repton are important antecedents of golf course architecture.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

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Re: Parkland vs. Heathland and the Importance of Trees
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2020, 04:02:44 AM »
The "chip out" is the most boring shot in golf.   

It's almost fascist, to steal a line about strikeouts from "Bull Durham".

I didn't realize you were so radical!

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 04:08:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

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