[John Blain]

Does anyone know why the USGA never went back to Olympia Fields for a US Open after Jim Furyk won there in 2003? The players are raving about the course and Rory was saying yesterday that he thought it would be a great US Open venue. Why the cold shoulder?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have wondered that as well. It seems to be a very accomodating club, hosting an Am and LPGA event.

[Jim Tang]

Agreed.  Seems like a good fit for a U.S. Open in the Midwestern part of the country.

[John Blain]

Geoff Shackelford answered my question in a roundabout way...


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/8/28/olympia-fields-bites-back-and-its-still-not-getting-a-us-open-any-time-soon

[Tom_Doak]

Does anyone know why the USGA never went back to Olympia Fields for a US Open after Jim Furyk won there in 2003? The players are raving about the course and Rory was saying yesterday that he thought it would be a great US Open venue. Why the cold shoulder?

I asked this when they were interviewing consultants, and they told me they would never have another US Open because the politics between the County and the USGA had been so awful in 2003.


I've not watched any of the event yet, but what's making the scoring so difficult?  The main complaint in 2003 was that the course wasn't hard enough!

[John Blain]

Does anyone know why the USGA never went back to Olympia Fields for a US Open after Jim Furyk won there in 2003? The players are raving about the course and Rory was saying yesterday that he thought it would be a great US Open venue. Why the cold shoulder?

I asked this when they were interviewing consultants, and they told me they would never have another US Open because the politics between the County and the USGA had been so awful in 2003.


I've not watched any of the event yet, but what's making the scoring so difficult?  The main complaint in 2003 was that the course wasn't hard enough!

High rough and rock hard greens.

[Adam G]

This is the first I have heard of the USGA "shrinking things down to a rota." Any info on this?

Geoff Shackelford answered my question in a roundabout way...


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/8/28/olympia-fields-bites-back-and-its-still-not-getting-a-us-open-any-time-soon

[Terry Lavin]

It’s not politics. The weather in June is too rainy, especially for a course routed around a creek. August is a different animal, as we are all seeing now.

[John Blain]

It’s not politics. The weather in June is too rainy, especially for a course routed around a creek. August is a different animal, as we are all seeing now.

Terry-
Same situation at Oak Hill In Rochester. The course plays completely different in June than it does in August for all the same reasons that you cited.

[John Blain]

This is the first I have heard of the USGA "shrinking things down to a rota." Any info on this?

Geoff Shackelford answered my question in a roundabout way...


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/8/28/olympia-fields-bites-back-and-its-still-not-getting-a-us-open-any-time-soon

Adam-
Mike Davis mentioned this a year or so ago when asked about future US Open sites. He alluded to the USGA maybe going on an 8 course rotation. Certainly the following would be considered "permanent" venues:
-Shinnecock
-Pebble Beach
-Oakmont
-Pinehurst #2
-Winged Foot
Potentially LACC if things go according to plan in 2023.
The other two would be up for grabs but could possibly include Oakland Hills and Torrey Pines since Olympic Club seems to have aligned itself with the PGA of America. Inverness, Southern Hills, Congressional and Oak Hill I believe would also entertain another Open but I think they are all longshots for one reason or another.

[Cliff Hamm]

It’s not politics. The weather in June is too rainy, especially for a course routed around a creek. August is a different animal, as we are all seeing now.

Terry-
Same situation at Oak Hill In Rochester. The course plays completely different in June than it does in August for all the same reasons that you cited.

Why moving the PGA championship to May is not good for northern coursess.

[Jeff Schley]

Even if there is no official rotation for US Open, obviously look at their decisions so there is. The PGA moving to May kills northern courses and a bad decision which stems from the tour making their artificial FedEx Cup BS.


Although June is not ideal weather in Chicago, it could work and actually is better than Winged Foot. Long Island and Shinnecock is slightly different climate than NYC proper. Here is some data for June averages.

New York City

• Avg high temp - 79.4
• Avg rainfall - 4.4 inches
• # of days with rain - 11.2

Chicago

• Avg high temp - 79.9
• Avg rainfall - 4.1 inches
• # of days with rain - 10.3

For the "US Open rota" I would ditch Torrey Pines and alternate between Pebble and LACC (if they want) for West Coast. I don't think Olympic Club is a must either and they are with the PGA in 2028 so they are out. Oakmont, Shinnecock, and Winged Foot are in of course. I would like to see Merion get back in personally. I'm also anxious to see The Country Club host. I'd like to see Olympia Fields and Oakland Hills get an Open in the next 20 years. They are spoken for through 2027. Don't forget about Bethpage Black either as the USGA likes muni's and public access courses.

Also I don't like the announcements 7-10 years prior to hosting being announced. It is too far in the future for anyone to get excited. I would have a max of 5 years in the future to maintain some excitement. Congressional is hosting the 2031 PGA! Wow great, but half of us maybe dead from Covid-20 by then. As well as PGA Frisco is hosting the 2027 and 2034 PGA???

[John Blain]

Even if there is no official rotation for US Open, obviously look at their decisions so there is. The PGA moving to May kills northern courses and a bad decision which stems from the tour making their artificial FedEx Cup BS.


Although June is not ideal weather in Chicago, it could work and actually is better than Winged Foot. Long Island and Shinnecock is slightly different climate than NYC proper. Here is some data for June averages.

New York City

• Avg high temp - 79.4
• Avg rainfall - 4.4 inches
• # of days with rain - 11.2

Chicago

• Avg high temp - 79.9
• Avg rainfall - 4.1 inches
• # of days with rain - 10.3

For the "US Open rota" I would ditch Torrey Pines and alternate between Pebble and LACC (if they want) for West Coast. I don't think Olympic Club is a must either and they are with the PGA in 2028 so they are out. Oakmont, Shinnecock, and Winged Foot are in of course. I would like to see Merion get back in personally. I'm also anxious to see The Country Club host. I'd like to see Olympia Fields and Oakland Hills get an Open in the next 20 years. They are spoken for through 2027. Don't forget about Bethpage Black either as the USGA likes muni's and public access courses.

Also I don't like the announcements 7-10 years prior to hosting being announced. It is too far in the future for anyone to get excited. I would have a max of 5 years in the future to maintain some excitement. Congressional is hosting the 2031 PGA! Wow great, but half of us maybe dead from Covid-20 by then. As well as PGA Frisco is hosting the 2027 and 2034 PGA???

Jeff-
Bethpage just hosted the PGA Championship last year and the Ryder Cup is going there in 2024 so I have to believe it has aligned itself with the PGA of America. Plus, don't forget while the 2002 US Open there was a tremendous success, the 2009 event was anything but. I think there is hard feelings with the USGA and state of NY. I wouldn't count on a US Open being there anytime soon.
With regards to Merion, we all know they just spent an extraordinary sum of money "updating" their east course. Was this done in an attempt to land another US Open? I doubt anyone at the club would admit to that but remember 2030 is the 100th anniversary of the Bobby Jones Grand Slam. What better way to celebrate than by hosting the country's national championship?
-John

[Tim_Cronin]

Does anyone know why the USGA never went back to Olympia Fields for a US Open after Jim Furyk won there in 2003? The players are raving about the course and Rory was saying yesterday that he thought it would be a great US Open venue. Why the cold shoulder?

I asked this when they were interviewing consultants, and they told me they would never have another US Open because the politics between the County and the USGA had been so awful in 2003.


I've not watched any of the event yet, but what's making the scoring so difficult?  The main complaint in 2003 was that the course wasn't hard enough!

High rough and rock hard greens.

The wind was also up – rare for a tournament in Chicago – the first two days. A little less wind today, and west rather than southwest, but still only one player under par, Hideki Matsuyama, and he just drilled a tee shot into the rough on No. 10.

[Carl Rogers]

5:10 PM Saturday ..... Many missed putts?
From US Open in 03, have the nines been reversed?

[Tim Martin]

Roger Maltbie just commented that “the course is all about angles”. It looks like a like a lot of fun to play.

[Tim_Cronin]

5:10 PM Saturday ..... Many missed putts?
From US Open in 03, have the nines been reversed?

This is the original layout. No need to change without spectators; the real back nine has some logjams for fans. The U.S. Open and other recent tournaments have gone 1, 11 through 18, 10, 2 through 9. (And the 1961 PGA also finished on 9, though with a completely different rotation of what's normally 17-18-10-9 to allow CBS to cover the last four holes with their limited equipment.)

[Terry Lavin]

Spent a good chunk of the day on the course today. It’s like watching my usual foursome. Can’t hit the fairway. Can’t hit the green and just miss the putt. This golf course is frustrating the best in the game, without any trickery whatsoever.

[Adam G]

Interesting, but makes sense. I bet they try to add one in the midwest (Oakland Hills?) and one on the west coast. I hope it's not Torrey. I hope LACC goes as planned and that is in the rota because its AWESOME.


Maybe TCC, Merion, a few others rotating in every few cycles?

This is the first I have heard of the USGA "shrinking things down to a rota." Any info on this?

Geoff Shackelford answered my question in a roundabout way...


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/8/28/olympia-fields-bites-back-and-its-still-not-getting-a-us-open-any-time-soon

Adam-
Mike Davis mentioned this a year or so ago when asked about future US Open sites. He alluded to the USGA maybe going on an 8 course rotation. Certainly the following would be considered "permanent" venues:
-Shinnecock
-Pebble Beach
-Oakmont
-Pinehurst #2
-Winged Foot
Potentially LACC if things go according to plan in 2023.
The other two would be up for grabs but could possibly include Oakland Hills and Torrey Pines since Olympic Club seems to have aligned itself with the PGA of America. Inverness, Southern Hills, Congressional and Oak Hill I believe would also entertain another Open but I think they are all longshots for one reason or another.

[Jim_Coleman]

What’s making it so hard? Azinger observed that the existence of trees makes the players play shots they don’t often have to play. He questioned the latest fad to remove trees from classic courses.

[Bill Seitz]

What’s making it so hard? Azinger observed that the existence of trees makes the players play shots they don’t often have to play. He questioned the latest fad to remove trees from classic courses.

Yeah, that was dumb.  I don't recall it being a course where trees are a big problem like they are some of the notable clubs that have done a lot of tree clearing.  Almost all of the shot shaping they were showing were shots on 15, where the trees on the right may legitimately be a problem for guys trying to get there in two, but that's not 99% of the people who play there.  I'm pretty pro-tree clearing, but I didn't walk off either course at OFCC thinking they needed to cut a bunch down.


I think it's mostly really firm and fast greens, narrow fairways, and deep rough.  To me it plays longer than the number on the card, but I don't hit it that far to begin with.  I suppose Terry and some other GCAers that are members may have more insight.  Something about those greens must be in their heads, because you don't usually see the best on tour dump tee shots in the bunker on 150 yard par threes.  Or maybe the fact that there's some non-trivial elevation change in Chicago, which can be disorienting.


I also think it would be good for TV to make them all tee off on 6 and 7 before putting out on 6 like the rest of us do.

[Bill Seitz]

Can someone explain the "aligned with the USGA" and "aligned with the PGA" thing to me?  I look at the majors as 1) Augusta, 2) seaside links, 3) Whatever the USGA decides they want to do that year, and 4) PGA trying to be just like the USGA.  It could be all politics, but I really don't get the "they're a PGA facility now, so the USGA won't go there", and vice versa.  It's not like either tournament has a particular style to which they're trying to adhere, which explains some of the cross-over through the years.  Is it just that clubs don't want to work with both organizations at the same time?

[Tim Martin]

Can someone explain the "aligned with the USGA" and "aligned with the PGA" thing to me?  I look at the majors as 1) Augusta, 2) seaside links, 3) Whatever the USGA decides they want to do that year, and 4) PGA trying to be just like the USGA.  It could be all politics, but I really don't get the "they're a PGA facility now, so the USGA won't go there", and vice versa.  It's not like either tournament has a particular style to which they're trying to adhere, which explains some of the cross-over through the years.  Is it just that clubs don't want to work with both organizations at the same time?

Bill-Baltusrol is another club whose relationship with the USGA seems to have dissolved on the major championship front although they did hold the 2018 U.S. Junior. There have been two PGA championships and another scheduled for 2029 since 2005. Additionally the women are coming in 2023 to play their PGA championship.

[Jeff Schley]

Can someone explain the "aligned with the USGA" and "aligned with the PGA" thing to me?  I look at the majors as 1) Augusta, 2) seaside links, 3) Whatever the USGA decides they want to do that year, and 4) PGA trying to be just like the USGA.  It could be all politics, but I really don't get the "they're a PGA facility now, so the USGA won't go there", and vice versa.  It's not like either tournament has a particular style to which they're trying to adhere, which explains some of the cross-over through the years.  Is it just that clubs don't want to work with both organizations at the same time?

Bill I don't have any inside information (as some here may have), but several things come to mind.

• Tim mentioned Baltursol. I played there 2 years ago and our host told us that the USGA is just too demanding for the membership with demands for course changes, etc. Thus, they decided that the PGA is much easier to work with and decided to align their major championship hosted with the PGA as a result.
• The USGA has certain demands for changes to be made and many times this necessitates $$ from the club to make these changes to have a chance down the road to host the US Open. The PGA from what I'm told doesn't have specific requests, but a restoration of what is in the ground would help.
• The USGA has many more events to host and I think will dangle unspoken carrots of hope to host a US Open while discussing a club hosting one of the other events (US AM, Mid AM, etc.).
• So I think a club realizes it can't host an event every year nor do they want to. Thus, you end up talking to either the PGA or USGA as a result. Most top courses have a master plan and incorporating any necessary changes in the eyes of the USGA would be included or should be if that is a goal.
• I really think now with the PGA moving to May it will cause much more competition for US Opens as hosting a May PGA for Northern courses isn't ideal weather wise. I'd like to see the California courses (except Pebble) move to the PGA (Olympic Club has already, yes Torrey Pines move or be booted) in May and allow for the US Opens to be awarded more in the northern climates. Once every 10 years have a US Open at Pebble in California and that is fine for me.

[Kalen Braley]

I think Azinger may have been partially right about the trees being in play in the context of....

When players used to hit 280 yard drives and contend with doglegs and bunker on the corners of those doglegs it was more or less a straight shot.  Now that they're so long and that stuff is out of play they have to hit over and around the trees that weren't in play before to find the fairway at 330-350...

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