[Jeff Schley]

I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading here. Aren't we supposed to be advocating for preservation and keeping the most iconic course in our entire sport as it lies? Who gives a rats behind if the winning score is in the mid to high teens under par as it has been for the last 5 or 6? I don't and with 1/18 weak holes? They are birdie opportunities IMO, not weak as I view the entire course in it's entirety and you have some brutes and you have some friendly handshakes. Obviously if the wind and rain comes TOC presents a much more difficult challenge, which is links golf. I'm totally against changing TOC routing for any Open Championship.


Those who disagree make yourself known so we can drain your brake fluid or use whatever the Russians are using now for clandestine poisoning.

[John Crowley]

So if DeChambeau is so great, let’s let him shoot a couple of 54’s on TOC first before any changes to the course.


If future Open scores at TOC are going to be lower -SO WHAT! These guys are skilled- let them show off.

Leave the course as is (with occasional minor tweaks as absolutely necessary) for the other 99.44% of players.

Scores are not the issue. The issue is the shots that you must play to succeed. Being a champion golfer is supposed to be about more than hitting drivers and wedges and putting. The supreme test of a champion golfer has always been hitting long approaches to tightly guarded greens.

Agree on long approaches. But that train has left the station and is not to return in the Pro game.

[Jeff Schley]

So if DeChambeau is so great, let’s let him shoot a couple of 54’s on TOC first before any changes to the course.


If future Open scores at TOC are going to be lower -SO WHAT! These guys are skilled- let them show off.

Leave the course as is (with occasional minor tweaks as absolutely necessary) for the other 99.44% of players.

Scores are not the issue. The issue is the shots that you must play to succeed. Being a champion golfer is supposed to be about more than hitting drivers and wedges and putting. The supreme test of a champion golfer has always been hitting long approaches to tightly guarded greens.

Agree on long approaches. But that train has left the station and is not to return in the Pro game.

John totally agree. A long approach to me as an amateur is 190 or more, why because it is at least a 5 iron. For the pros a 5 iron is a 225 or more yard carry. I watched Rory hit his 9 iron this week at OFCC with minimal wind for a 180 yard approach.
So long approach is relative to the club you have to use. I would term a long approach using a 5 iron or more. So on a par 4 when are pros going to have 225 yards or more? Rarely if ever, we are looking at par 5 second shot approaches to get this scenario.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think there a good number of players who could play the Open Championship at St Andrews at well under par and never hit a driver or fairway metal. What would the reaction be if that happened?  I truly love TOC but at that point is it really major championship golf?   

[Marty Bonnar]

I can’t make out much of the text, but am I right in thinking that the proposal was to blow up the existing Jubilee and build the new course on that land (with a bit of the New Course land used too)?
The drawing also seems to indicate that a ‘reconstructed’ Jubilee would be built on what is the area of the New. What was going to happen there?
F.


PS Please email me the larger version when you get the chance, Adam. Maybe more info to be had from a proper read.

[Jeff Schley]

I think there a good number of players who could play the Open Championship at St Andrews at well under par and never hit a driver or fairway metal. What would the reaction be if that happened?  I truly love TOC but at that point is it really major championship golf?

Jerry agreed if the weather is good for all 4 days, but that rarely happens during the Open. The weather is it's defense as with most links courses. Was Tiger's Open victory at Liverpool discounted because he didn't use driver but once?

[Peter Pallotta]

St. Andrews is like a very old and very rich uncle: those who love him for who he is are happy to see him enjoying his last days in whatever way he wants; while those who are interested in what he can one day give them are constantly urging him -- in the name of keeping healthy and vibrant -- to eat right and exercise and avoid unnecessary stress.

[Ben Stephens]

I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading here. Aren't we supposed to be advocating for preservation and keeping the most iconic course in our entire sport as it lies? Who gives a rats behind if the winning score is in the mid to high teens under par as it has been for the last 5 or 6? I don't and with 1/18 weak holes? They are birdie opportunities IMO, not weak as I view the entire course in it's entirety and you have some brutes and you have some friendly handshakes. Obviously if the wind and rain comes TOC presents a much more difficult challenge, which is links golf. I'm totally against changing TOC routing for any Open Championship.


Those who disagree make yourself known so we can drain your brake fluid or use whatever the Russians are using now for clandestine poisoning.

Jeff,


This is all hypothetical and can be an interesting challenge to see whether we can mix some of the best Old Course holes with others by it so see if there is a real major championship course on the whole links without having to dig up and change holes on the Old Course.


Royal Melbourne and the Country Club do it for the professionals and revert back to the club courses after.


Adam's article is an eye opener - its another course on the New and Jubilee land which is more of a dunes land with mounding - it would be interesting what would be there as well.


To me the Old Course is the Mona Lisa of golf courses and needs to be untouched as it is however its time as an Open Championship course is coming to an end IMO unless there are changes to the ball and driving distances. If the powers still allow the golf ball and driver to carry on as they are plus pros beefing up to happen why not have Super Championship course to host the Open at St Andrews for the next 100 years and leave the Old Course as it is.


It has happened at Gleneagles with the Kings course used to host the Scottish Open for many years and now all Gleneagles events are on the PGA Centenary. Same for the Celtic Manor. The demands for hosting major golf events has increased more in the last 20 years than the 100 years before it.


The course record is 61 (Ross Fisher 2017) and it wont be that much long that it will be a 59 or 25 under 4 round winning score IMO. 


Cheers
Ben

[John Crowley]

I think there a good number of players who could play the Open Championship at St Andrews at well under par and never hit a driver or fairway metal. What would the reaction be if that happened?  I truly love TOC but at that point is it really major championship golf?

Yes, because it is open to the finest golfers of the time and the winner must still be at least one stroke better than the rest.

[Thomas Dai]

Adam,
Many thanks for posting the article. I'd be obliged if you could forward me a copy


John C & Jeff S,
I'd be interested to read your thoughts on playing The Open once again at Prestwick and Musselburgh?


atb

[Ken Moum]

So if DeChambeau is so great, let’s let him shoot a couple of 54’s on TOC first before any changes to the course.


If future Open scores at TOC are going to be lower -SO WHAT! These guys are skilled- let them show off.

Leave the course as is (with occasional minor tweaks as absolutely necessary) for the other 99.44% of players.

Well, they could always speed up the greens... then when it gets windy...


Oh, wait.  They did that.  And TOC ended up being unplayable while every other course in Fife went on as if nothing happened.
Scores are not the issue. The issue is the shots that you must play to succeed. Being a champion golfer is supposed to be about more than hitting drivers and wedges and putting. The supreme test of a champion golfer has always been hitting long approaches to tightly guarded greens.

[Jon Wiggett]

Two things come to mind after reading this thread.


First, TOC is only obsolete if you judge the quality of a course by par and that a player being under par by a large amount being a sign that the course is not good enough for a major. I would argue that what is important is that the course identifies the best player of the week (not the best scorer necessarily) which TOC usually does.


Secondly, they could increase the demands the course makes by raising the height of cut on the fairways thus reintroducing the sidehill and up/downhill lies that were a common feature of playing TOC until they stupidly followed the trend for low cutting fairways. Throw into the mix demanding pin placements and maybe not raking bunkers and I am sure players would find it more demanding.


Yes it might be considered 'unfair' but maybe the pros just need to get over themselves.

[Ken Moum]

maybe the pros just need to get over themselves.

Amen.

[Pete_Pittock]

play the reverse course

[Jeff Schley]

Adam,
Many thanks for posting the article. I'd be obliged if you could forward me a copy


John C & Jeff S,
I'd be interested to read your thoughts on playing The Open once again at Prestwick and Musselburgh?


atb

Thomas you picked two that are no longer in the rota for almost a 100 years in Prestwick's case and well over 100 in Musselburgh case. For nostalgia would like to see some event at Prestwick. I believe they have some high level amateur events still. I don't see The Open coming back, but if you don't need a crowd like this year give them a crack at an event again. Maybe they tear it up at -30, but as is with links courses, the weather comes and now we have a stern test.
What do you thing Thomas?
BTW would love to see Royal Cinque Ports host an Open again, although it is doubtful as RSG seems to be the preferred destination for Kent.

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