Biarritz and NGLA

[Adam Lawrence]

Here's an interesting snippet I just found. From The Sketch, February 19, 1913, by Henry Leach. I'd never heard this about National's fifteenth before.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don’t know NGLA but I do know that the 12th hole at Biarritz was the inspiration for the “Biarritz” and that - apparently - the initial intent at NGLA was that the 15th be a “Biarritz”.


Understanding that it ended up as a “Narrows”, something changed either after this article or before in which case it didn’t quite have up to date information.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Wasn't the 17th at St Andrews a par 5 at that time?  Does the reference to the second shot imply that the shot should be on the green?

[Alex Miller]

Could this have been a more subtle interpretation by CBM? The 15th green does rise quite a bit front to back and is perched to its surrounds, but clearly the landscape of the hole is quite a bit different than the cliff hole at Biarritz.


The other interpretation I have is similar to Adam's - that perhaps the 15th was to be routed in a different place on the property or was to finish to the left of the current fairway / green on the hill that the 16th tee sits on.

[Adam Lawrence]

Could this have been a more subtle interpretation by CBM? The 15th green does rise quite a bit front to back and is perched to its surrounds, but clearly the landscape of the hole is quite a bit different than the cliff hole at Biarritz.


The other interpretation I have is similar to Adam's - that perhaps the 15th was to be routed in a different place on the property or was to finish to the left of the current fairway / green on the hill that the 16th tee sits on.

We should be aware that this has NOTHING to do with the 'Biarritz' template or the Chasm hole that is supposed to have inspired it. That was the third hole on Le Phare course.

[Bret Lawrence]

Is it possible the author was referring to today’s 6th hole? In his writing he mentions:  “when the celebrated National Golf Links of America were being constructed”.


When the course was being constructed the nines were reversed and today’s 6th hole was the original 15th.  I realize the 6th is a Short today, but just trying to clarify which hole he was talking about.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Could this have been a more subtle interpretation by CBM? The 15th green does rise quite a bit front to back and is perched to its surrounds, but clearly the landscape of the hole is quite a bit different than the cliff hole at Biarritz.


The other interpretation I have is similar to Adam's - that perhaps the 15th was to be routed in a different place on the property or was to finish to the left of the current fairway / green on the hill that the 16th tee sits on.

We should be aware that this has NOTHING to do with the 'Biarritz' template or the Chasm hole that is supposed to have inspired it. That was the third hole on Le Phare course.

Adam,


I think the Biarritz template was inspired by the 12th hole at La Phare, not the Chasm hole... if you trawl back through that great Biarritz thread, you should find the history.


Ally

[Tony_Muldoon]

Could this have been a more subtle interpretation by CBM? The 15th green does rise quite a bit front to back and is perched to its surrounds, but clearly the landscape of the hole is quite a bit different than the cliff hole at Biarritz.


The other interpretation I have is similar to Adam's - that perhaps the 15th was to be routed in a different place on the property or was to finish to the left of the current fairway / green on the hill that the 16th tee sits on.

We should be aware that this has NOTHING to do with the 'Biarritz' template or the Chasm hole that is supposed to have inspired it. That was the third hole on Le Phare course.

Adam,


I think the Biarritz template was inspired by the 12th hole at La Phare, not the Chasm hole... if you trawl back through that great Biarritz thread, you should find the history.


Ally

I was thinking the same, 3 is far to close to the clubhouse.


BTW.  The Bay of Biscay IS known for storms: but I've visited Biarritz twice July and Feb., nearly 4 weeks in total, and IMO it's not what I would call a windy place.

[Bret Lawrence]

Maybe the author was referring to the article Macdonald wrote in 1906 for Outing Magazine?  In that article, the Biarritz hole is listed as 15, and suggested by the 12th at Biarritz.  Perhaps the author thought this was the hole-by-hole description of the National Golf Links of America?


Macdonald included this in his book.  Here’s a link to his descriptions:
https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uiug.30112058552339?urlappend=%3Bseq=220

[Bret Lawrence]

Here is a photo from February 1914, American Golfer.  The caption describes the 6th and 12th green at Biarritz, but I’m not sure which is which?

[Ronald Montesano]

The reversed routing at The Old Course, perhaps? Didn't it get as much, or more, play than the current one, back in the day?