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Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Okay, it might not be the most prestigious tour in the world but the Clutch Pro Tour does attract some very good up and coming pros, as well as a few familiar names from Ryder Cup teams past.

300 yard drives are a given for these guys, so it will be fascinating to see how a 100 year-old classic members' course stands up to an assault by a hundred pros. Long driving isn't necessarily the key to success at Cavendish.

We're praying for dry weather, so that the notoriously fiendish greens can be pimped up to 12 or so and some devilish pin placements found. I believe the rough mower will also be "broken" the week before!

The course record is currently 62 - only six under par.  If anyone breaks it they will have earned it!


Clutch1 by Duncan Cheslett, on FlickrClutch2 by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:43:42 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sounds interesting. Looking forward to a full report! :)
Atb

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
I guess all of us who are members at non- tournament courses wonder how the pros would fare.

Would they beat up completely our beloved course which confounds us in a weekly basis?

Or would they get tripped up by the subtle nuances that have taken us years to (not quite) master?

I’m very much looking forward to finding out!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've belonged to three courses that have held PGA TOUR events. It is eye opening how they can tear the course apart. Don't be dismayed if someone shoots a low number. I think your course record is in jeopardy. I agree though, that 300 yard drives won't help much on some holes.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've belonged to three courses that have held PGA TOUR events. It is eye opening how they can tear the course apart. Don't be dismayed if someone shoots a low number. I think your course record is in jeopardy. I agree though, that 300 yard drives won't help much on some holes.


Tommy


Have you played Cavendish? if not its main defence is the greens itself its all about hitting the ball in the right place on the green from rather awkward lies on the fairway. The shorter holes generally has the more devilish greens whereas the longer holes the green are more flattish however more difficult to get to.


I will be surprised to see anyone breaking 62. If someone has well done to them.


Its the kind of course that will frustrate some 'cotton woolled' pros  ;D


Cheers
Ben

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've belonged to three courses that have held PGA TOUR events. It is eye opening how they can tear the course apart. Don't be dismayed if someone shoots a low number. I think your course record is in jeopardy. I agree though, that 300 yard drives won't help much on some holes.


Tommy


Have you played Cavendish? if not its main defence is the greens itself its all about hitting the ball in the right place on the green from rather awkward lies on the fairway. The shorter holes generally has the more devilish greens whereas the longer holes the green are more flattish however more difficult to get to.


I will be surprised to see anyone breaking 62. If someone has well done to them.


Its the kind of course that will frustrate some 'cotton woolled' pros  ;D


Cheers
Ben


Yup, I have played Cavendish and loved it. The pros are just so good they can beat up any course. I belong to Ballyhack, which has had the VA State Open for the last few years. It has the reputation for beating up players. Yet in the last Open this year an amateur was 18 under par for three days. I'm not sure there are many courses more terrifying than Victoria National. Last year on the Korn Ferry TOUR the winner was 23 under par.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've belonged to three courses that have held PGA TOUR events. It is eye opening how they can tear the course apart. Don't be dismayed if someone shoots a low number. I think your course record is in jeopardy. I agree though, that 300 yard drives won't help much on some holes.

Weather always plays a role, of course, but I would be shocked if someone doesn't at least equal the course record.

Tommy


Have you played Cavendish? if not its main defence is the greens itself its all about hitting the ball in the right place on the green from rather awkward lies on the fairway. The shorter holes generally has the more devilish greens whereas the longer holes the green are more flattish however more difficult to get to.


I will be surprised to see anyone breaking 62. If someone has well done to them.


Its the kind of course that will frustrate some 'cotton woolled' pros  ;D


Cheers
Ben

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Duncan perversely you are more likely to defend the course with green speeds of 9 than 12.
Cave Nil Vino

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Duncan perversely you are more likely to defend the course with green speeds of 9 than 12.


This-especially since that opens up more pins on greater % slopes.


Yet no one ever does this on purpose for fear of being ridiculed for "slow" greens.
One of the many conundrums in this game when it comes to challenge, interest and variety.


I will be very interested to see how they fare at Cavendish.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Peter Pallotta

I guess there's more than a little bit of Tom Meeks in all of us, eh? The pros come to a course we play or are very fond of and our first thought is to grow the rough, speed up the greens, hope the course plays dry and fast, and find as many pins that we can tuck as possible. But the top players shoot lights out anyway. And then, as I've read many industry professionals and/or raters say when asked why a beloved course isn't ranked more highly: "unfortunately, it's too short for the modern game". 
Yes, indeed: as the mobster says to the senator: we are all part of the same hypocrisy.

PS - from all I've read and seen here Cavendish seems like an absolutely wonderful course and a great place to be a member; I hope Duncan and the other members can soak up and enjoy this 'first' and not worry a whit if someone shoots a 59 or 60 or 61; it happens a heck of a lot these days, even at 7000+ yard courses.


« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 11:29:29 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week. When will we learn our lesson?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week.
+1
As an aside, are there any limitations being put in place due to Covid? Members spectating etc?
atb

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week.
+1
As an aside, are there any limitations being put in place due to Covid? Members spectating etc?
atb


I'd like to see them try and keep Duncan and his chainsaws away!
Let's make GCA grate again!

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0

From all I've read and seen here Cavendish seems like an absolutely wonderful course and a great place to be a member; I hope Duncan and the other members can soak up and enjoy this 'first' and not worry a whit if someone shoots a 59 or 60 or 61; it happens a heck of a lot these days, even at 7000+ yard courses.


The initial reaction was to birdie-proof every green, something eminently possible at Cavendish.


On reflection however, the course will be set up pretty much as it would be for Captains Day - some tucked pins, some front pins (possibly the most difficult) and some located with subtlety in seemingly benign locations.


A 59 is clearly a possibility, and one we would welcome as it would be great publicity. It will have to be earned though, and we envisage just as many over par rounds as sub par ones.


We want these guys to go back to their mates and tell them what a great course and test Cavendish is and a refreshing change from the 7000 yarders they’re used to. We also want such events to return.


Neither of these will happen if we trick the course up too much. We don’t particularly value “fairness” on this site, but pros most certainly do!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 06:29:17 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week. When will we learn our lesson?



Seconded.


Duncan, all those hopes and expectations in your last post are exactly why so many tournament setups are poorly done . . . trying to control the winning score, or to set it up perfectly so it's just enough of this but not too much of that.  It's exhausting, and then a bunch of players go out and fly it right over all that stuff!


In a one-day event the scoring will be a complete crapshoot, especially if players aren't familiar with the course.  Innfour rounds, you'd almost certainly see the course record fall and likely a 60, but on a single day the odds are against it.


Some of the younger players will just hit driver everywhere, and if they don't miss in the right spots they'll be over par, but they likely won't be happy about it because they won't realize their mistakes.  What you'd like to have is the contrast of some older guys who know their way around and can show up the sour grapes for what they are, but I don't know who qualifies to play.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
There is a lot to be said for not prepping a course over and above the norm when the pros or other elite players come to town.
Special prepping of a course for a higher profile event has a time and manpower and cost impact. There is also recovery time to consider, which can be longer that might seem the case. Then there’s also the expectations of ‘usual suspect members’ along the lines of “if the conditioning for the pros can be that good why can’t it be like that all the time for us members too”.
Atb

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Duncan,


I cant wait to hear how the event goes for you guys at Cavendish and only wish spectators were allowed, but clearly under current circumstances thats not possible.


Just let the pros play the course as members do each week.
+1
As an aside, are there any limitations being put in place due to Covid? Members spectating etc?
atb


We hosted one of the first Clutch Pro events after the easing of lockdown at Hollinwell, and the tour put in place a number of measures to make safe social distancing and checking possible. We had to provide a number of volunteers for the day from the membership so I was lucky enough to follow a group around as the official bunker raker and I had my temperature taken, hand sanitiser provided and a reminder of social distancing. Other measures were in place to restrict the size of the field, number of people on site on the day etc.


As far as I'm aware Hollinwell was set up pretty similar to normal member play. There were a few tough hole locations, but not all back tees were used, which I think was the agreed setup between the tour and our own greenstaff. Quite different to the R&A setup we have for Final Open Qualifying which the R&A dictate, but even then its not stupidly narrow fairways or fast greens! A mixed field which included a number of ex Ryder Cup players and European Tour winners, as well as a Solheim Cup regular, saw the winning score at 6 under, another at 5 under, with quite a few between 1 and 3 under.


It will certainly be interesting to see how the pros do around Cavendish, but its not a course that can be overpowered. If you are out of position it will be tough to hit the right part of the green, but it will certainly be interesting to find out how it all goes. Duncan, I assume you will be volunteering on the day and therefore providing us all with a full report?


Cheers,


James

2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week.
+1
As an aside, are there any limitations being put in place due to Covid? Members spectating etc?
atb


Spectators are being discouraged by limiting the total number of people on the course to 300 including players and officials.


Members have the opportunity to volunteer as bunker rakers and flag tenders if they want to watch proceedings.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Just let the pros play the course as members do each week. When will we learn our lesson?



Seconded.


Duncan, all those hopes and expectations in your last post are exactly why so many tournament setups are poorly done . . . trying to control the winning score, or to set it up perfectly so it's just enough of this but not too much of that.  It's exhausting, and then a bunch of players go out and fly it right over all that stuff!


In a one-day event the scoring will be a complete crapshoot, especially if players aren't familiar with the course.  Innfour rounds, you'd almost certainly see the course record fall and likely a 60, but on a single day the odds are against it.


Some of the younger players will just hit driver everywhere, and if they don't miss in the right spots they'll be over par, but they likely won't be happy about it because they won't realize their mistakes.  What you'd like to have is the contrast of some older guys who know their way around and can show up the sour grapes for what they are, but I don't know who qualifies to play.




Thanks Tom. Points noted and passed onto the “powers that be”.

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: At 5700 yards and par 68, Cavendish is hosting its first pro tournament!
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2020, 02:26:22 AM »
On a lovely early autumn day 40 professional golfers gathered yesterday to compete at Cavendish. The course was presented in magnificent condition considering the appallingly wet August we've just had. The greens were a little softer and more receptive than we'd like but were running perfectly true at a speed of 10. When the day dawned with barely a breath of wind it looked as if all  the course's defences were left wide open.


We needn't have worried.


When it was all over only seven competitors had broken par. The winning score of 6 under (62) which tied the course record was a fabulous round of golf but the average was 2 over!


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c353659da02bcf72b5ffadd/t/5f4e7da4d07bfe1f3b519fac/1598979493607/Cavendish+Classic+Results+%26+Prize+M.pdf


Those competing yesterday are not elite professionals - this is an entry level tour comprising largely of young guys trying to make a name for themselves and up and coming pros on the verge of the Challenge Tour. What they all have in common with the household names however, is the ability to hit 300 yard drives consistently off the tee.  It became immediately apparent to the spectator that this aspect of their game was easily the least important. I joked with the group I was walking with that they may as well all tee off from 300 yards down the fairway and slug it out from there. They concurred that the real action was from 150 yards in.


I was struck though, by how often they hit irons and fairway woods off the tee, even on wide holes. They were all trying to give themselves their favoured distance into the green, whether that was 150 yards or 120. Far from being overpowered by big driving, Cavendish was actually making them think about setting up their next shot in a way that a much longer course possibly doesn't.


Despite the greens being as benign as they can be after the recent rain, they were the ruin of many a round. I saw multiple three-putts and realistic birdie chances were thin on the ground as competitors struggled to position their approach shots on the best side of the hole.


Pin positions were set by the organisers, and they did a fine job. They also managed to find another 150 yards by swapping round some tees. For example, the 420 yard 5th played at 440 yards from the 17th tee, and the 160 yard 17th was stretched to 185 yards by utilising the 5th tee. It meant that the tee shots crossed each other but that isn't a problem because groups on the two holes never tee off simultaneously anyway. I played the same course later in the day and thought it worked superbly. I suspect these slight changes may become cemented in before long.


It was a fabulous day and hopefully the first of many. The tour wants to return next year and is even talking about a 3 or 4 day event at Cavendish, so impressed were they by the course and how we looked after them. If nothing else it was a huge PR coup.


The players seem to have enjoyed themselves too, although the majority were cursing under their breath about being made to look very average by a "pitch and putt" course! 











 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 02:28:53 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: At 5700 yards and par 68, Cavendish is hosting its first pro tournament!
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2020, 08:17:28 AM »
Thanks for the report Duncan.
Food for thought within this thread.
atb