Chicago Area

[John Crowley]

That "ditch" comes into play on at least half of the holes?


Land can be dramatic without having major humps and rolls every fairway. The 2nd at SA doesn't have the "ditch" in play but that's a fairly dramatic setting and resulting hole, no?


Golf courses aside, can anyone really say the land is more dramatic at Chicago than Shoreacres?



Not me.
The routing of SA around the landforms is genius. The templates and continuity of CG is a joy.
Both superior in their own way. CG would be my first replay choice hands down.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I look at that photo and wonder if the fw is/was flat because:


1) Seth Raynor is an engineer, and that is just what they do....
2) Seth Raynor as gca believed in proportionality, i.e., the harder the hazard, the easier the fw.  Or, without much room to bail out left, he at least wanted nothing to do with a rolling fw kicking the ball towards the ravine.  If it was Fazio, or most modern architects, he would have built a subtle ridge on the right side of the fw to keep tricklers in the fw.
3) Purely natural, although it seems clear the bank to the ravine was at least smoothed out to plant grass, if not intially, then at some point.


Short version, if you need to critique the flat fw to claim this isn't a great hole, I think you have too much time on your hands, LOL>

[Ted Sturges]

The land at Shoreacres is so dramatic for this area even though it really wouldn't be that special in other areas of the Country. 

Outside of the big ditch that affects play on a couple holes, the land isnt dramatic at all.  There is more movement, for example, at CGC, Beverly, Medinah #3 and OFCC(N), by far.


The course is fun and the conditioning is great, but Im always confused how that one element that is most impactful as a single, drop-shot par3, seems to make people forget how flat most of the rest of the course is.

The "flat" holes at SA are: 1, 7, 9, 17, 18.
Mmeh...maybe 10, too.


5/18 does not come to be "most" holes, but rather as some holes.


True, #12 has a dramatic elevation drop.
True the the Bev and OFCC have nice land movement.


But making any other equivalencies after that is just trolling....

11 might be the flattest fairway on the property.  I realize the ravine is right of and at the end of the fairway, but you could paint lines and play a futbol match on that fairway.  The only fairways without a significant flat section would be 2, 3, 4 and 13 and 16.  9/14 (excluding the one shot holes) is "most".


TS

Sure...;-)...right after you drive over a huge ravine with, as you said, a 75' drop-off on the right that is only semi-visible from the tee and if you are 250 yards off the tee you go down into yet another ravine giving you an improbable chance at saving par as the front right of the green bleeds right into the 12th tee box.


But, yes, the fairway is flat and so is the deck of a moving aircraft carrier...;-)

Not sure I get your point.  If you read my first post, I stated that the land is dramatic at Shoreacres but the playing surfaces are generally flat.  I believe that to be true.  This is not a criticism of the golf course, just an observation.  I truly love SA. 


TS

[Ted Sturges]

Shel,


I have not played Chicago Golf, Shoreacres, Medinah #3, Old Elm, Rich Harvest Links or Skokie. I also haven't played most if not all of the great courses in the other regions mentioned. So I would hardly call whatever my list may be but I wouldn't say it falls to the level of ranking.

Having not played CG, SA and OE, you've missed the best that Chicago has to offer (the 3 best in my humble opinion).  Odd that you want to offer an opinion when you haven't seen the top end of the area.


TS

Ted,


I've never bought into the long running con that a golfer needs to play a course to have a legitimate opinion. Putting my money where my mouth is I have joined several private courses before I had the opportunity to play them.

I was not aware that an opinion could be formulated (or valued) if one had not actually seen the golf course.  When did this happen?


TS 

[Phil McDade]

Shel,


I have not played Chicago Golf, Shoreacres, Medinah #3, Old Elm, Rich Harvest Links or Skokie. I also haven't played most if not all of the great courses in the other regions mentioned. So I would hardly call whatever my list may be but I wouldn't say it falls to the level of ranking.

Having not played CG, SA and OE, you've missed the best that Chicago has to offer (the 3 best in my humble opinion).  Odd that you want to offer an opinion when you haven't seen the top end of the area.


TS

Ted,


I've never bought into the long running con that a golfer needs to play a course to have a legitimate opinion. Putting my money where my mouth is I have joined several private courses before I had the opportunity to play them.

I was not aware that an opinion could be formulated (or valued) if one had not actually seen the golf course.  When did this happen?


TS

Ted -- I'm shocked when a day goes by on GCA that someone doesn't have an opinion on a course they haven't seen.

[John Kavanaugh]

There is not a town in this country where I can't accurately give an opinion on the best courses to play. Same with restaurants.


I do see that the shops where my wife used to go before the internet had some sales last night.

[V_Halyard]

I'd be excited if I heard somebody say they were heading to Chicago for a golf trip, but I'd probably be more excited if they told me they were heading to Chattanooga. Blake, have you played around Chattanooga?


A home base of Green Lake, WI puts you within 1:30 or so of at least seven legitimate Top 100 contenders, at least 5 other courses of national acclaim, and at least 5 or 6 hidden gems that might actually be better than anything on the "national acclaim" list. Kohler might not be enough to beat Chicago by itself, but considering that there have been Chicagoans on this site who cite Spring Valley as the best public in the Chicago area, I think we must also consider the Whistling Straits/Sand Valley/Erin Hills triangle a single destination that clearly belongs on this list.

I got a note from a friend, not on GCA, that lives near Wilmot Wis and was adamant that Spring Valley is not a "Chicago Area Public Course" as it resides in, I'm quoting here, " The Land of Wisconsin." 
Just the messenger. No shooting.
Interestingly though, first time asked to forward a message "From the outside" to this board. 
Interesting times.  Must be  the Covid... Carry on.

[John Kavanaugh]

During my evaluation of the Chicago area I did include the Dunes Club. If it had beat out the WP9 Chicago may have squeezed into my top 10.

[Tom_Doak]

I have noted over the years that the only guys who rate Chicago a top golf destination are guys from Chicago 


John, your reputation must have preceded you to Philly.  If they let you on Manufacturers and Rolling Green and Philly Country Club, your opinion might be higher.  But you've gotta have access.


Surprised you didn't include Boston or Cleveland

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm too old for either Boston or Cleveland.

[Ira Fishman]

I have noted over the years that the only guys who rate Chicago a top golf destination are guys from Chicago 


John, your reputation must have preceded you to Philly.  If they let you on Manufacturers and Rolling Green and Philly Country Club, your opinion might be higher.  But you've gotta have access.


Surprised you didn't include Boston or Cleveland

Tom,


I am guilty of being from Chicago although I have not lived there for many years. I am pretty sure that only NYC has more DS 6 or 7 than Chicago among Major Metro areas.


Ira

[Kalen Braley]

Ira,

I suppose its personal judgement as to which one is better...

Would one prefer an area with 5 DS 8s and 9s and 5 others at DS 4 and 5?
or
10 DS 6 and 7s?

[John Kavanaugh]

I recently played with a member of MPCC who had never played Cypress Point. Even so he is one of the luckiest golfers in the world.

[Phil McDade]

I'd be excited if I heard somebody say they were heading to Chicago for a golf trip, but I'd probably be more excited if they told me they were heading to Chattanooga. Blake, have you played around Chattanooga?


A home base of Green Lake, WI puts you within 1:30 or so of at least seven legitimate Top 100 contenders, at least 5 other courses of national acclaim, and at least 5 or 6 hidden gems that might actually be better than anything on the "national acclaim" list. Kohler might not be enough to beat Chicago by itself, but considering that there have been Chicagoans on this site who cite Spring Valley as the best public in the Chicago area, I think we must also consider the Whistling Straits/Sand Valley/Erin Hills triangle a single destination that clearly belongs on this list.

I got a note from a friend, not on GCA, that lives near Wilmot Wis and was adamant that Spring Valley is not a "Chicago Area Public Course" as it resides in, I'm quoting here, " The Land of Wisconsin." 
Just the messenger. No shooting.
Interestingly though, first time asked to forward a message "From the outside" to this board. 
Interesting times.  Must be  the Covid... Carry on.

Dirty little secret: The Kohler courses, Sand Valley, Erin Hills, and Lawsonia are inundated most weekends (and weekends in the summer around here begin around noon on Thursdays) with Chicago-area golfers. If you consider Antioch a suburb of Chicago -- that's who's playing Spring Valley from Illinois. But Spring Valley is very much a locals course.

[Mark Smolens]

Phil, of my five posted scores this season, I think three are from Spring Valley. . . and I do believe that Elmhurst qualifies as the Chicago area.

[Bill Seitz]

Phil, of my five posted scores this season, I think three are from Spring Valley. . . and I do believe that Elmhurst qualifies as the Chicago area.

A little cheaper than playing Dubs every week, eh?

[Tim Martin]

I have noted over the years that the only guys who rate Chicago a top golf destination are guys from Chicago 


John, your reputation must have preceded you to Philly.  If they let you on Manufacturers and Rolling Green and Philly Country Club, your opinion might be higher.  But you've gotta have access.


Surprised you didn't include Boston or Cleveland

Tom,


I am guilty of being from Chicago although I have not lived there for many years. I am pretty sure that only NYC has more DS 6 or 7 than Chicago among Major Metro areas.


Ira

I would say that Boston or Philadelphia has Chicago beat.

[John Kavanaugh]

What good does a Doak 6 or 7 do a guy anyway? Once you are at that level affordability and the quality of the food become just as important as the course.

[Tim Martin]

What good does a Doak 6 or 7 do a guy anyway? Once you are at that level affordability and the quality of the food become just as important as the course.

Absolutely. For most the social component is the deciding factor. Few have any idea or care what a Doak 6 is.

[John Kavanaugh]

Now an 8 is a different story. I left all my friends and drove an hour each way for 20 years for an 8.

[Ira Fishman]

John,


Lol!


So I went to count because it is a slow morning.


Chicago--2 8s, 4 7s, 8 6s Total --12
Boston--2 8s, 4 7s, 3 6s Total--9
Philadelphia--1 10, 1 8, 6 7s, 5 6s--Total 12


I started this thread to dispute John's assertion that Chicago is not Top 50 area.


Ira

[John Kavanaugh]

Does Doak really only have Chicago Golf as an 8?

[John Kavanaugh]

Ira,


Again, I said Chicago was not top 50 in the world. I narrowed it down to not top 10 in the US because there are obviously 40 better golf towns in the UK alone.

[Ira Fishman]

Does Doak really only have Chicago Golf as an 8?

He does. But he is a tough grader. In Volume 3 which covers most of the US except for California and the South, he has only 7 10s and 7 9s. Only three courses get 10s from all four authors--Pine Valley, Sand Hills, and Shinnecock.


I resisted buying the CG for years because I am frugal, but it is a lot of fun.


Ira