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David_Tepper

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Shot of the Year!
« on: August 09, 2020, 10:06:32 PM »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2020, 08:01:01 AM »
In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near that close.


But, on further review:


a.  It was a 295-yard drive, which anybody in the field can do these days, and is right in Collin's normal range, and
b.  It was a baby fade, which is his go-to shot


My guess is if you sent him back to the tee for a one hole playoff, and he had to hit the shot 100 times, he hits it on the green 40-50% of the time, and right around the green another 40-50% of the time.  He might only hit it inside ten feet once or twice, but is that skill, or is that just kind of random at the end of a 295-yard drive?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:04:06 AM by Tom_Doak »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2020, 08:09:23 AM »
Ha

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2020, 08:15:31 AM »
In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near that close.


But, on further review:


a.  It was a 295-yard drive, which anybody in the field can do these days, and is right in Collin's normal range, and
b.  It was a baby fade, which is his go-to shot


My guess is if you sent him back to the tee for a one hole playoff, and he had to hit the shot 100 times, he hits it on the green 40-50% of the time, and right around the green another 40-50% of the time.  He might only hit it inside ten feet once or twice, but is that skill, or is that just kind of random at the end of a 295-yard drive?
He shot 65 and 64 on the weekend, and came from two back to win by two on Sunday, so I'm going to say that it was skill; the best shot in one of the great Sunday rounds in major championship history.


In ANY great moment in sports, you are seeing someone do something that almost all the other competitors are capable of doing but didn't. That the others didn't manage to do it enhances the moment, rather than detracting from it by seeing it as randomness.  And the list of guys that did NOT eagle the 70th hole of this particular major championship despite being able to do so is pretty impressive.  DJ didn't.  Day didn't.  And so on...

Mazeroski wasn't a home run hitter, but nobody else that day in 1960 did what he did, and that home run is the stuff of legend. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 08:29:03 AM by A.G._Crockett »
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2020, 08:18:37 AM »
Well done on the victory to CM and for producing such a shot under pressure.
But, sorry folks, when players can reach a hole in 1 shot, like CM and the rest of the field could the 16th, it’s a par-3 not a par-4. Frankly all the chat about eagles is just ego and vanity.
Well done to CM for his win though.
Atb




Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2020, 08:49:21 AM »
There was exactly one eagle on 16 Sunday.  And only 3 all week.  Twice as many pars as birdies.  C'mon guys. 

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2020, 08:56:49 AM »
It was a great shot but it's not like he was aiming at the pin.


I thought the putt was great. Only 7 feet with a 57% make percentage but he read it and executed it perfectly. It broke into the center of the hole. Hitting a driver IMO, is nowhere near as subject to nerves as that putt. It was awesome to see.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2020, 09:10:42 AM »
It is amazing how these guys can pull of those shots under that kind of pressure.  To me, golf is unique because the player is not reacting to what someone else is doing like a batter in baseball, a tennis player returning a volley, etc.  The kid is great for golf and I look forward to see how he does when there are thousands of people surrounding him when he has to execute the shot - it looks like he will be able to handle it but time will tell.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2020, 09:14:25 AM »
There was exactly one eagle on 16 Sunday.  And only 3 all week.  Twice as many pars as birdies.  C'mon guys.


Not true.  They had a graphic at one point on Sunday that showed the results of every tee shot on the day, which included five eagles.  I think that was before Morikawa's shot.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2020, 09:22:36 AM »
I saw that Tom but here is what ESPN has:


http://www.espn.com/golf/stats/hole
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2020, 09:28:30 AM »
In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near the hole.

He shot 65 and 64 on the weekend, and came from two back to win by two on Sunday, so I'm going to say that it was skill; the best shot in one of the great Sunday rounds in major championship history.
 


This thread is about the one shot, not the 65 and 64, which were indeed impressive.  He was a very deserving champion.


But none of what you posted refuted any of my points.


Sure, every great shot has some element of randomness to it.  Even his seven foot putt - taking its little left to right break into the dead center of the hole! - could have been messed up by a Poa seedhead in an alternate universe.


But we have argued for the last year or two here that these guys are not accurate enough with driver to even favor one side of the fairway over the other.  To now argue that the guy is making his driver pull up seven feet short of the hole, is the opposite of that.


My point is really that the increased distance players hit it now make the results at the far end seem that much more random, to me.  You can aim a 180-yard shot at an exact spot on the green, but can you really do the same from 290?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 09:37:48 AM by Tom_Doak »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2020, 09:36:43 AM »
I saw that Tom but here is what ESPN has:


http://www.espn.com/golf/stats/hole


Wow.


But that's wrong.  I can't find a place on the PGA Championship web site where they give full hole by hole stats like that, but if you look at Denny McCarthy's final round scorecard, there is a nice little map of him hitting it 2 feet 7 inches from the hole on 16 yesterday, and making two.  I don't have time to look for all the others right now, but there was definitely more than one eagle.


Edit:  McIlroy was another who made eagle at 16, though he needed a 24-footer to do so.


ESPN = fake news??  Who'da thunk it?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 09:41:17 AM by Tom_Doak »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2020, 09:43:53 AM »
And don't forget Collin M. also has made the putt of the year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNhP4mQ0VAU

(so far :) )

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2020, 10:17:35 AM »
My bad!  I knew about Denny's eagle too, just forgot.  So I went back through the cards on PGA site.  For Sunday's round on 16: 6 eagles, 39 birdies, 29 pars, and 5 worse, including a bogey for Brooks (pride goeth before a fall) Koepka.  Call the hole whatever you want, par 3, par 4, par 3.5 -- it worked.


Eagles for CM, English, McIlroy, Palmer, McCarthy and Straka. 

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2020, 10:21:01 AM »
As much as the go to shot for the most of the right hander pros is a fade, I wonder how the drivable par 4 requiring a draw would play?  I think it would be a harder shot.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2020, 10:28:36 AM »
In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near the hole.

He shot 65 and 64 on the weekend, and came from two back to win by two on Sunday, so I'm going to say that it was skill; the best shot in one of the great Sunday rounds in major championship history.
 


This thread is about the one shot, not the 65 and 64, which were indeed impressive.  He was a very deserving champion.


But none of what you posted refuted any of my points.


Sure, every great shot has some element of randomness to it.  Even his seven foot putt - taking its little left to right break into the dead center of the hole! - could have been messed up by a Poa seedhead in an alternate universe.


But we have argued for the last year or two here that these guys are not accurate enough with driver to even favor one side of the fairway over the other.  To now argue that the guy is making his driver pull up seven feet short of the hole, is the opposite of that.


My point is really that the increased distance players hit it now make the results at the far end seem that much more random, to me.  You can aim a 180-yard shot at an exact spot on the green, but can you really do the same from 290?


Isn't that just golf?


Jack Nicklaus hit a really great 1-iron approach to 17 at Pebble Beach once. Playing that shitty MacGregor ball, would it really have been a tangibly lesser shot if the same swing produced a ball that landed two feet shorter, sprang extra-hard off the downslope, missed the pin by half an inch, and bounded long into the rough? To me, one of the great things about golf is that the answer can be both "yes" and "no" at the same time.


Tiger's 2008 US Open win was both the luckiest and greatest major win I've ever seen. Make one fewer poa-plinkoing 96-footer, or 12-footer, or pitch-in from an embankment, and his entire legend looks a little different. But somehow, he made it around in fewer strokes than anybody else.


On the flip side, Tom Watson hit a pretty damn good approach shot that rolled right 2 yards past the Flagstick of Immortality into the Valley of What Might've Been. Maybe it's possible to win a major with nothing more than a sweet swing with a high-handed follow through and a chin dimple, but a little luck at the right time helps an awful lot if you want to it to be memorable.


We've all experienced the joy of hitting a shot that comes off exactly as intended, and it sure looked like Morikawa hit a perfect shot on 16. Of course some luck was involved, as on any shot. A bad bounce could've sent him into the bunker, a soft one could've left him short of the green, a firm one could've sent him rolling out to 25 feet instead of 7. If we're being honest, he probably was firing for the middle of the green and pushed it a perfect 3 or 4 yards right.


I'm lost as to how any of that makes his 2 on 16 yesterday any less impressive. He dialed up a great swing, got a near-perfect result, and still had the composure to drop the putt dead center. A hole like that usually happens somewhere along the way for guys who get big wins. Rub of the green works both ways, but in my experience, it tends to reward better shots.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2020, 11:00:18 AM »
Tom,


Maybe offer your replacement if this doesn't meet your standard?


His chip/pitch on #14 was certainly remarkable considering the circumstances but he probably wasn't even intending to hole it...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2020, 11:12:42 AM »
My bad!  I knew about Denny's eagle too, just forgot.  So I went back through the cards on PGA site.  For Sunday's round on 16: 6 eagles, 39 birdies, 29 pars, and 5 worse, including a bogey for Brooks (pride goeth before a fall) Koepka.  Call the hole whatever you want, par 3, par 4, par 3.5 -- it worked.


Eagles for CM, English, McIlroy, Palmer, McCarthy and Straka.


So where does ESPN get its numbers from?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2020, 11:15:26 AM »
Tom,

Maybe offer your replacement if this doesn't meet your standard?

His chip/pitch on #14 was certainly remarkable considering the circumstances but he probably wasn't even intending to hole it...


Yes, I thought the pitch was a better shot, and that was also the one that really got him going.  And I thought the seven-foot putt at 16 was very impressive, as well.


Do you not agree with me though that the end position of a 300-yard drive has quite a bit of randomness to it, compared to a 180-yard shot?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2020, 11:18:52 AM »
Tom,

I think you miss the point a bit here, it wasn't just another shot on 16:

1)  He was tied for the lead
2)  Only his 2nd major ever
3)  Miss it just right and it goes in that greenside bunker and he can kiss even a birdie goodbye.
4)  The 70th hole of the tourney.
5)  Unimaginable pressure of the moment.

My hats off to him, its easily the shot of the year.

P.S  If it was Tiger who had done that the sycophant fan boys would be losing thier minds right now and calling it top 10 in Tiger pantheon of greatest close out shots.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 11:21:23 AM by Kalen Braley »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2020, 11:19:43 AM »
Well done on the victory to CM and for producing such a shot under pressure.
But, sorry folks, when players can reach a hole in 1 shot, like CM and the rest of the field could the 16th, it’s a par-3 not a par-4. Frankly all the chat about eagles is just ego and vanity.
Well done to CM for his win though.
Atb

What was the average score on the hole? Around 3.5? I would call it an eaglet. A 3 would be a hatchling.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2020, 11:27:55 AM »
I saw that Tom but here is what ESPN has:


http://www.espn.com/golf/stats/hole

Somebody is asleep at the wheel putting up that data. No way it is even close to reality.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2020, 11:28:54 AM »

Tom,

I think you miss the point a bit here, it wasn't just another shot on 16:

1)  He was tied for the lead
2)  Only his 2nd major ever
3)  Miss it just right and it goes in that greenside bunker and he can kiss even a birdie goodbye.
4)  The 70th hole of the tourney.
5)  Unimaginable pressure of the moment.

My hats off to him, its easily the shot of the year.



I did, in fact, recognize most of that.


In the moment, I was as thrilled as everyone else to see Collin Morikawa hit that shot. To do it under the pressure of being tied for the lead was amazing, and none of the other contenders hit it anywhere near that close.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2020, 11:35:27 AM »
...
Do you not agree with me though that the end position of a 300-yard drive has quite a bit of randomness to it, compared to a 180-yard shot?

Random. Didn't matter that much as he only needed birdie to win.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shot of the Year!
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2020, 11:58:20 AM »
...
My hats off to him, its easily the shot of the year.
...

Why isn't the hole out with the wedge that gave him the lead the shot of the year?

Moe Norman claimed he could hit a barber pole 250 yards out with driver more often than someone could sink a 100 ft putt.

The pitch shot had to fly the exactly right distance, have the right velocity, have the right spin, and the right direction to account for any break.

The drive only needed to travel the reasonably correct direction and distance to get into a circle with a 16 foot diameter. Wasn't even the best effort of the day.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne