[Mark Smolens]

• George Dunne National in Oak Forest, Ill. (I think Dick Nugent) - Owned by the Forest Preserves of Cook County. Lovely layout, albeit over treed IMO it is a forest preserve what do you expect? Also several lakes which force carries that slows down play. Not quick rounds here. However Bill Casper runs it and keep the course in very good shape.

Really? Billy Casper keeps George Dunne in good shape? Since when? Unless you consider bunkers with 12-18" of sand, fairways with huge patches without grass, and greens so slow that you're better off putting with your hybrid to be "very good shape." Back in the day, when the course was "Forest Preserve National," the deputy sheriff in the courtroom I worked while in law school could get me on the tee sheet on Saturday or Sunday morning for a small donation ($20 cash money), and we'd be playing a beautifully maintained, pristeen golf course for $25 to walk. People would line up and park outside the course on weekend mornings to get a tee time, but the County employee in the pro shop would give us a nod and take our money when we showed up.


But the course conditions at George Dunne haven't been like that for a long, long time imo. The CDGA has even stopped taking qualifiers and other events down to Oak Forest because of so many complaints about the conditions. . . Too bad. It's a fun track, with a number of interesting holes, and a plethora of wildlife wandering around during your round.

[Jeff Schley]

Mark.... yeah maybe relative to public courses. I last played I think 4 years ago and it was in good shape, very green and lush. My brother plays there a couple times a year. I don't mind greens that are slow personally. If it has gone down in the last several years I haven't heard that.

[John Emerson]

Municipality-a city or town that has corporate status and local government.  Any entity above this is not a “muni”.  IE: state owned/ran.  Or private ownership. 

[Garland Bayley]

Municipality-a city or town that has corporate status and local government.  Any entity above this is not a “muni”.  IE: state owned/ran.  Or private ownership. 

Merriam Webster
"Definition of municipal (Entry 1 of 2)
1: of or relating to the internal affairs of a major political unit (such as a nation)
municipal legislation … enacted for the fulfillment of the treaties
— U.S. Stat. 750
2a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a municipality
municipal government
municipal water supplies
municipal elections
municipal courts
b: having local self-government
3: restricted to one locality
a new very municipal variety of dwarf sweet pea"

So John, it seems you are insisting of the secondary definition, not the primary.
It seems the primary definition would include Jasper and Banff courses.

[Kalen Braley]

I think the qualifying criteria ought to be one of size.

When you have massive municipalities, 1 million+ in population be counted in this list, but then eliminate courses in counties that are a fraction of that size, if anything the county courses would be a disadvantage. 

[Jeff Schley]

Trump Ferry Point

[Tommy Williamsen]

Fifty years ago I regularly played Pine Ridge outside Baltimore. It is a wonderful city owned course. It is situated on the Loch Raven Reservoir so application of certain chemicals is prohibited.  It is a nice walk and in the 70’s hosted the LPGA championship. I haven’t been there in decades so I can’t speak to its present state. I sure loved it at the time. Mt Pleasant is another Balto owned course that is a fine layout on rolling hills and a good test of the player’s skills.

[Daryl David]

It is news to me that Desert Willow is a muni. My mother-in-law lives within walking distance. From the street, DW seemed like just another expensive place behind walls, so I did not give it another thought. I suppose it is somewhat affordable? They are transitioning to a new booking software, so no rates were viewable today.

I second Balboa.

A round at Fred Enke in Tucson a few years ago is a good but fuzzy memory. Perhaps a local will weigh in.

Greg,


Yes you are correct, forgot about DW's 36 holes. It is priced in high season with the resort courses.  Not sure there is a discount for residents, although there should be. I have played it several times. When it first opened it was in unbelievable shape and on par with what you would expect from high end desert golf. Most recently maybe 10 years ago and was in average shape and a jammed tee sheet.

The City of Palm Desert owns Desert Willow. It’s a muni.


From the city’s website:


In 1997, the City of Palm Desert opened [/size]Desert Willow Golf Resort[/url][/size][/color][/size] in an effort to increase tourism and revenue to the City while providing a first class recreational amenity for residents.[/color]


[/size]Because Desert Willow is a municipal golf resort, the City believed that residents should have the opportunity to enjoy Desert Willow's two championship courses at a reduced rate. The City's Resident Golf Card Program does that. The first resident rate, established in 1997, was $45. Minor increases through the years have brought the resident rate to its current amount of $52[/color]

[Tim_Weiman]

I'll second the votes for Delaware Springs and Cedar Crest in TX.  Both are very good.  I also think Papago in AZ, Shepherd's Crook in IL, and Golf Mountain in WA are worth a play.


The two best in Cleveland that haven't been mentioned are Sleepy Hollow and Manakiki.  Sleepy could be truly special with a bit of work.

Joe,


Back in Charlie Sifford’s days as the pro Sleepy Hollow was usually in very good shape and enjoyable to play. It is definitely a place worth taking care of. Liked it much more than Manakiki.

[Edward Glidewell]

Cobblestone in Acworth, GA is a solid golf course. One of the best public courses in the Atlanta metro area and it's owned by Cobb County.


Bryan Park in Greensboro, NC is owned by the city and has two pretty good courses. Tanglewood Park in Clemmons, NC also has two pretty good RTJ courses. It's owned by Forsyth County.

[Bill Seitz]

Mark.... yeah maybe relative to public courses. I last played I think 4 years ago and it was in good shape, very green and lush. My brother plays there a couple times a year. I don't mind greens that are slow personally. If it has gone down in the last several years I haven't heard that.

You have some unique experience in SoCal and Chicago, and the difference that I've noticed is that summer rains keep even relatively poorly maintained courses in Chicago more aesthetically pleasing than most munis in LA.  Water ain't cheap unless God provides it for free.  I'd bet George Dunne has smaller pro-rata maintenance budget than Brookside (Pasadena), but it "feels" like it's in better shape.
[size=78%] [/size]

[Garland Bayley]

John,

That's strictly applying the definition of municipal. However, it does not reflect the generally accepted definition of municipal golf course.

Then let’s start the 1 millionth thread on best public courses.  Words matter.

You are right John, words matter.

You're welcome.

[Sean_A]

I tend to think of munis as courses owned by a municipality. In the US municipalities are generally towns and cities where there is no lower form of government controlled by the municipality. I suspect there are some very rural areas where there is county-city consolidation, but I doubt many have golf courses which could make this list. Still, for the ease of discussion I don't see a major issue if county courses were tossed into the conversation. I certainly wouldn't consider a state owned course a muni because a state in the US is clearly not a municipality.

As an aside , is a list like this worth much? Do folks travel to play munis? And if they do, I have to believe they research these courses using other means.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Sean,

Given where you live, you can be forgiven for adhering to the staid old Oxford definition as opposed to the modern up to date Webster's definition.

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Given where you live, you can be forgiven for adhering to the staid old Oxford definition as opposed to the modern up to date Webster's definition.

It's more than referring to the most definitive English language dictionary in the world. Nobody in the US calls a state a municipality. I suspect you don't either being the contrarian, argumentative SOB that you are 😎. Regardless, what a stupid concept.

Ciao

[Jeff_Brauer]

• George Dunne National in Oak Forest, Ill. (I think Dick Nugent) - Owned by the Forest Preserves of Cook County. Lovely layout, albeit over treed IMO it is a forest preserve what do you expect? Also several lakes which force carries that slows down play. Not quick rounds here. However Bill Casper runs it and keep the course in very good shape.

. . . Too bad. It's a fun track, with a number of interesting holes, and a plethora of wildlife wandering around during your round.

Fond memories of working on that course while with Killian and Nugent, one of their last before the split.  They had just met Jim Colbert and brought him to the opening.  Stood on the first tee and said, "If this isn't a par 5, I'm going home." (It was)  While KN did the design, they brought in an old time irrigation designer under separate contract.  His designs remained single row, as would have been typical when he started in the biz, but given the scale of the course, which is huge, typical of Dick Nugent, it wasn't enough.  Sometimes he used double row on the tees, they were so large, but went back to single row in the fairways, LOL.


I presume in the 40 years since it has been built that this has been upgraded to at least double row?


Sort of OT, and maybe no one really cares, but short story.  Some of the design associates had by that time gotten tired of their standard 2 mounds behind every green.  During the planning phase, we ran the idea of variety by them, even coming up with a system of rolling a dice to determine if there would randomly be 1 to 6 mounds, maybe even one without any backing mound at all.  They agreed in the office, but when we got out on an early field visit, where the first green had just one mound, Ken (and it was really Dick's project) suggested splitting the one into two.  The next green had 4, which he suggested be reduced to 2 as "too busy". 


After he changed all of the five greens shaped by then back to 2 mounders, one of the design associates pulled up his car, emptied all the survey gear and plans out and quit on the spot.  Any design associate will tell you getting over ruled on "your idea" in the design is a pretty constant frustration, LOL.  That said, I imagine he told his wife about it, who was more concerned with him being employed over being a satisfied career professional, and he was back on the job the next day, head down drafting.  Dick walks in (late, as was his custom) and says, "Hey, I thought you quit?"  The answer, "I brought donuts to apologize" apparently the universal "I didn't really mean to" language, LOL.

[Stewart Abramson]

I don't think these have been mentioned yet. I believe they are all municipally owned

Keller - St Paul, MN
Papago - Phx, AZ
Wild Horse - Gothenberg, NB
Rackham, Det, MI
Rustic Canyon, Moor Park, CA
The Knoll - West Course - Boonton, NJ
Rock Spring - West Orange, NJ
River Vale - Rivervale, NJ
Neshanic Valley - Neshanic Stn, NJ
Spook Rock - Suffern, NY
Saratoga Spa - Sratoga Springs, NY

[B.Ross]

don't believe rustic canyon is owned by the local gov, but by a developer. however they run it like a traditional public course, save no discounts for ventura county or other locals.


knoll west is semi-private, but yes town of parsippany owns it. regardless, there is no tee sheet discount for a local resident than compared to a NYC resident.


this is where muni definition can get tricky. someone mentioned ferry point. its city owned but privately managed yet they have a city resident rate.


to me, feels like a muni isn't a muni unless there's a discount for those that live within the municipality that operates the golf course. but then you could argue is it based on ownership or operation? what about a course that's owned by a municipality but they lease out the operation to a private entity like american golf?


despite being state owned not county owned, bethpage feels like the textbook muni. it's owned & Operated by the government & those that live within the jurisdiction that O&O's it (NY state) get discounted greens fees and privileges to make tee times.

[Michael Blake]

Essex County, NJ's 3 county courses.  Grew up there and learned the game on them as a teenager...with Nuzzo-perhaps he'll chime in.


Learned MANY years later that 2 were designed by Charles Banks (Francis Byrne & Hendricks) and the other (Weequahic) by George Low.  I don't know how much original stuff was there in the 1980's, but they were REALLY fun to play.

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