[Ally Mcintosh]

Here are the holes nominated from Tom’s thread that are in Europe. What others do we have to help choose our European 18?



Castle Stuart 3, 11, 18 - Hanse
Kingsbarns 4, 6, 12 & 15 - Phillips
Portsalon 2 - Ruddy
Carne 17 - Hackett
Balmedie 3, 13 & 17 - Hawtree
Craighead 10 - Hanse
Renaissance 8 - Doak
Waterville 11 & 17 - Hackett
Portstewart 4 - Findlay / Giffin
Cruit Island 4 & 6 - Doherty
Ballybunion Cashen 15th - RTJ
Carne Kilmore 7 & 8 - McIntosh
Burnham & Berrow Channel 8th - Hawtree
Lofoten Links 2, 14 & 16 - Turner
Fohr Blue 3 - Althaus
Herzogswalde 7 - Althaus
Askernish 7 & 12 - Irvine et al
Loch Lomond 14 - Weiskopff / Morrish
Ardfin 9 - Harrison
Machrihanish Dunes 10 - Kidd
JCB 1 & 18 - Hiseman
Alands Castle 9 - Spogard
West Cliffs 7 - Cynthia Dye


Others coming from this thread:


St.Emilion 8 - Doak
Durness 8 or 9
Close House 3 or 11 - McPherson
Valdres 2 - Turner
Tralee 13 - Palmer
Enniscrone 16 - Steel / Ebert
Donegal 8 - Hackett
Doonbeg 1 & 18 - Norman
Praia D’el Rey 4 - Robinson
The European 12 - Ruddy
Westport 15 - Fred W Hawtree
Covesea 7
Castlerock Bann 2,3 & 9 - Pennink + local
Oitavos Dunes 11 - Hills
Brauterholt 4
Bearwood Lakes 8 - Hawtree
Remedy Oak 16 - Jacobs
Woburn Dukes 16 - Charles Lawrie
Castle Course 17 - Kidd
Sand Valley 12 - Tilander / Ristola
Lough Erne 10 - Faldo
Rastenmoos 4

[Ally Mcintosh]

Goodwood 16 was nominated twice as an Ebert hole but that was originally a Braid course that was first renovated by Swan about 14 years ago. Surely it isn’t a completely new hole?


That said, M&E have designed enough new holes elsewhere that there must be one or two up for consideration? What about one at Skibo? I’ll go with the 16th at Enniscrone (Steel / Ebert) because for a Par-5 by the sea, it makes you think for the second shot.

[Daryl David]

I’d add a couple by Jeremy Turner. Both in Norway


Par 4 16th at Lofoten Links


Par 4 2nd at Valdres Golf Club

[Tom_Doak]

Ally:  I'm pretty sure that the Goodwood course nominated in the thread is in Canada, outside Toronto.


Most of the courses I've seen on the Continent are pre-1970, so I'm not much help here.  I would guess Thracian Cliffs should have a candidate.


Not many posters have played St Emilion - I would think the 8th or 15th holes the most likely candidates there, though I am personally fondest of the 13th.

[Daryl David]

Not many posters have played St Emilion - I would think the 8th or 15th holes the most likely candidates there, though I am personally fondest of the 13th.

I have played it and liked a lot of holes. If forced to pick one, I would go with the par 4 8th. Awesome hole.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Ally:  I'm pretty sure that the Goodwood course nominated in the thread is in Canada, outside Toronto.

That would be true.  The village of Goodwood is also the setting for the Netflix show Schitt's Creek.

[jeffwarne]

8 and 9 at Durness are pretty good
Tralee ? 13?

[Mark Pearce]

Can I nominate Close House 3 and 11?  MacPherson

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks for the clarification on Goodwood, Tom.


I’ll add the other nominations to the first post.

[Jeff Schley]

Trump Doonbeg 1 & 18

[Thomas Dai]

Um, .... would/should holes akin to the 7th at Royal Dornoch, the 9th at Cruden Bay and the 17th at Hoylake/RLGC be allowed in the mix???

atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Um, .... would/should holes akin to the 7th at Royal Dornoch, the 9th at Cruden Bay and the 17th at Hoylake/RLGC be allowed in the mix???

atb

Generally speaking, I would not allow these holes as they are fixed in a hole corridor by what is already there... 17th at Hoylake possibly because it is a complete reorientation... 7th at Dornoch almost... Significant renovations (new bunkering, new green in almost same location) not permitted.

[Adam Lawrence]

I’d add a couple by Jeremy Turner. Both in Norway

Par 4 16th at Lofoten Links

Par 4 2nd at Valdres Golf Club

I'd nominate the fourteenth at Lofoten, a truly outstanding hole. I like the sixteenth too, but 14 is the best hole on the course.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Once we get a list, I’ll start knocking out holes if they are based more on visuals than actual golfing variations / strategies. There’s definitely a few on this list that offer the former without much of the latter.


I will add two more though:


The 8th at Donegal (Hackett) is my favourite Par-5 in Ireland. Although the 15th at Westport (an outstanding hole on a less than great course) could be even better.


Looking at a few rankings, we have the following excellent courses with no representation. Any standout holes?


Rosapenna Sandy Hills
Ballyliffin (both courses)
Connemara
Oitavos Dunes
Praia d’el Rey
Valderrama
Les Bordes
Monte Rei
Finca Cortesin
Troia
Bundersand Sylt
Dumbarnie
St Andrews Castle
Bernadus
Thracian Cliffs
Carya
The Scandinavian
Sand Valley
Penati
Stippleberg
De Swinkelsche
European Club
2 holes at Portrush
Queenwood
Machrie (new holes)
Adare Manor
Old Head
Bear wood Lakes
Remedy Oak
Archerfield
Medoc


etc... etc...

[Jeff Schley]

I'd go 12th at European Club. 124 yard long green.

[Scott Warren]

The 4th at Praia del Rey (Cabel Robinson) near Obidos in Portugal. Fantastic short four slightly uphill to a benched green.

[Mark Pearce]

There must be a couple worth nomination at Palmares but I get confused by the numbering.

[Thomas Dai]

Although a West Course at Saunton existed prior to 1939, it was trashed during WW2 and wasn’t brought back to life and re-opened until the mid-1970’s, which is within the 50 yrs for this thread. There are some quality holes on the West too, 7 and 13 in particular.
Atb

[Thomas Dai]

Um, .... would/should holes akin to the 7th at Royal Dornoch, the 9th at Cruden Bay and the 17th at Hoylake/RLGC be allowed in the mix???
atb

Generally speaking, I would not allow these holes as they are fixed in a hole corridor by what is already there... 17th at Hoylake possibly because it is a complete reorientation... 7th at Dornoch almost... Significant renovations (new bunkering, new green in almost same location) not permitted.

I tend to agree, just raising it for clarification purposes.
The new 7th and 8th at Westward Ho would be other examples and they don’t seem play through a previously used corridor.
I’d add the 9th at Burnham & Berrows Channel Course. An evil, but delightful, hole.
Atb

[Bill Gayne]

It's several years since I've been there but the 18th at Trump Aberdeen is definitely worth a mention. I can't compare to the other Hawtree courses and holes that have been listed as I haven't seen them.

[Sean_A]

Although a West Course at Saunton existed prior to 1939, it was trashed during WW2 and wasn’t brought back to life and re-opened until the mid-1970’s, which is within the 50 yrs for this thread. There are some quality holes on the West too, 7 and 13 in particular.
Atb

The West always gets skipped as a modern design.

Castle Course has 10, 14 and 17.

7 Formby.

2, 3 and 9 Castlerock Bann.

I think the back 9 of Seahouses was done in the 70s. If so, 15 and 16.

Ciao

[Adam Uttley]

I think there’s more at JCB worthy than the 18th.  The 1st, 11th and 16th are all worthy of a mention with a ton of options on each.


In terms of the others I’d add:


Oitavos Dunes 11th
Bearwood Lakes 8th
Remedy Oak 16th
Woburn Dukes 13th

[Adam Lawrence]

It's several years since I've been there but the 18th at Trump Aberdeen is definitely worth a mention. I can't compare to the other Hawtree courses and holes that have been listed as I haven't seen them.

God no, it’s a terrible hole. How on earth do you make a 600 yard hole with twenty bunkers look puny? Answer, you put the tee about a mile in the air. The seventeenth is by a distance the best hold on that course imo

[Adam Lawrence]

I think there’s more at JCB worthy than the 18th.  The 1st, 11th and 16th are all worthy of a mention with a ton of options on each.

I don’t disagree, but we are only allowed one hole per architect aren’t we?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Rules of this thread are as many holes per architect as you wish...


However, I do ask people to be a little bit choosy: If the 2nd 3rd & 9th holes on the Bann course at Castlerock are all in with a chance of getting chosen in the best 18 modern holes in Europe, then what have we been doing for the last 50 years?


I’ll get a small committee together to choose the final 18.

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