Webb Simpson on distance debate-need better golf design

[Rob Marshall]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/webb-simpson-better-course-design-the-answer-to-golf-s-distance-debate/ar-BB17kDMy?li=BB15ms5q

[Tim_Weiman]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/webb-simpson-better-course-design-the-answer-to-golf-s-distance-debate/ar-BB17kDMy?li=BB15ms5q

”Better course design” is just a cop out, IMO. The most economical solution is a competition ball with distance rolled back ~ 10-15%.

[MCirba]

Oh, Webb.

[John Kavanaugh]

The Tour told him that he couldn't use his putter of choice and he fought the good fight and has worked his way back to the top of the game. The guy has credibility on the issue of regulated equipment change.

[jeffwarne]

The Tour told him that he couldn't use his putter of choice and he fought the good fight and has worked his way back to the top of the game. The guy has credibility on the issue of regulated equipment change.

true

[Kalen Braley]

Considering the ban didn't go into place until 2016, i'm not so sure the data backs that up.

Year      Rank on Tour (Total Putting)

2011	37
2012	75
2013	37
2014	69
2015	172
2016	141
2017	87
2018	6
2019	7
2020	14

[Joe Zucker]

Considering the ban didn't go into place until 2016, i'm not so sure the data backs that up.

Year      Rank on Tour (Total Putting)

2011	37
2012	75
2013	37
2014	69
2015	172
2016	141
2017	87
2018	6
2019	7
2020	14

Webb switched before the 2015 season to get ahead of the change, so I think the stats actually do bear out the fact that he was hurt by the change.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-snapping-a-putter-over-his-knee-helped-webb-simpson-become-one-of-the-pga-tours-best-on-the-greens


"Upon making the switch ahead of 2015, he went a dismal 174th and 177th in the all-important stat the next two seasons"

[Kalen Braley]

While that may be the case Joe, he wasn't exactly an elite putter the previous years at 37th, 75th, 37th, and 69th.

The rules makers did him a favor by forcing him to commit to something instead of switching back and forth between god knows how many different styles of putters. It was only then that he got the results he wanted...

And they would do the entire tour and architect industry a favor too by implementing a distance limited tournament ball.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,


If I were you I’d never admit I was wrong either. Of course I also wouldn’t admit I was you.

[Joe Zucker]

I don't disagree that a limited flight ball would be good for the game.  But saying the change did Webb a favor is easy in hindsight because I don't think it was clear he would come out better afterwards.  He had been putting with a belly putter since college and was a better than average tour putter.  The odds of a forced change leading to him ending up in the top 10 in the world had to be pretty low.  A lot of other guys haven't been as lucky.


That being said, the moral of the story that tour players don't always have the best perspectives on equipment or courses remains true here.

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

Its certainly true that he did better than most on the conversion.  However, i'm guessing at some point in his junior playing days he switched over after struggling with a conventional putter and did his best to adapt.  I would also very much agree that players don't always have the best perspective on equipment, which was the main assertion in reply #3. 

[John Kavanaugh]

There are millions of guys who have hit the ball and putt as well as tour pros. The few who have made it at the highest level are not a resource of information to be ignored.


Why are we forced into a debate about the credibility of Webb Simpson?


I’d love to hear exactly why a guy like our own Jeff Warne ended up on the wrong side of the microphone. I never got close enough to make my story that interesting.

[MCirba]

Tighter fairways, higher rough, smaller greens, more doglegs, bunkers pushed out to 315 from the tee....zzzzzz.

[John Kavanaugh]

It’s like a 50 word article.

[JC Jones]

While that may be the case Joe, he wasn't exactly an elite putter the previous years at 37th, 75th, 37th, and 69th.

The rules makers did him a favor by forcing him to commit to something instead of switching back and forth between god knows how many different styles of putters. It was only then that he got the results he wanted...

And they would do the entire tour and architect industry a favor too by implementing a distance limited tournament ball.

Only in the land of 15 handicaps that is GCA.com would a guy who is 37th in the world in putting not be considered an elite putter.

[Ira Fishman]

While that may be the case Joe, he wasn't exactly an elite putter the previous years at 37th, 75th, 37th, and 69th.

The rules makers did him a favor by forcing him to commit to something instead of switching back and forth between god knows how many different styles of putters. It was only then that he got the results he wanted...

And they would do the entire tour and architect industry a favor too by implementing a distance limited tournament ball.

Only in the land of 15 handicaps that is GCA.com would a guy who is 37th in the world in putting not be considered an elite putter.

Yes, I was 33rd until I four jacked number 7 today from 18 feet.


Ira

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Ira -- it's good to know that it happens to the best of them too.

On the larger question: I've never discounted what tour pros have to say about architecture. But I note that none of the tour pros who've become architects have yet been able to 'design better courses' or solve the distance problem either.

[JC Jones]

Thanks, Ira -- it's good to know that it happens to the best of them too.

On the larger question: I've never discounted what tour pros have to say about architecture. But I note that none of the tour pros who've become architects have yet been able to 'design better courses' or solve the distance problem either.

From Old Tom forward, often times being a great golfer of an era was a ticket to commissions for laying out golf courses.

[Tom_Doak]

On the larger question: I've never discounted what tour pros have to say about architecture. But I note that none of the tour pros who've become architects have yet been able to 'design better courses' or solve the distance problem either.

They do design 'better' courses from their own perspective.  The problem is that nobody with a handicap above 2 shares their worldview.


The most popular fix would be to build small greens - Tour players universally admire small greens.  But you don't do that for a course that will attract a lot of play, and the WHOLE POINT of hosting a Tour event is to attract a lot of play.

[jeffwarne]

While that may be the case Joe, he wasn't exactly an elite putter the previous years at 37th, 75th, 37th, and 69th.

The rules makers did him a favor by forcing him to commit to something instead of switching back and forth between god knows how many different styles of putters. It was only then that he got the results he wanted...

And they would do the entire tour and architect industry a favor too by implementing a distance limited tournament ball.

Only in the land of 15 handicaps that is GCA.com would a guy who is 37th in the world in putting not be considered an elite putter.

thought the same thing

[JESII]

Why is this not the ideal solution?


Design a couple dozen courses for them and leave the rest for us...

[John Kavanaugh]

I honestly don't mind laying up short of the fairway bunkers. What is wrong with their courses?

[JESII]

The whole issue is about us changing our courses to fit them if they happen to show up...why not remove the mystery?


We can still go play their courses anytime, but it’s occasionally fun to hit it over a bunker.

[John Kavanaugh]

Nothing wrong with a course where two serious golfers, one 30, the other 60, can compete straight up. This is only done by punishing the wayward drives or limiting the optimum distance off the tee. Now where is the harm in that?

[Kyle Harris]

Nothing wrong with a course where two serious golfers, one 30, the other 60, can compete straight up. This is only done by punishing the wayward drives or limiting the optimum distance off the tee. Now where is the harm in that?

So, Turnberry. 2009.