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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« on: March 29, 2017, 03:05:39 PM »

Tom Fagerli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2017, 08:15:02 PM »
I have long thought that when the travel and entertainment deduction got whacked 20 some yrs  ago that clubs took a big hit from which they never recovered.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2017, 08:21:57 PM »
Please, does anyone use crossfit as a business opportunity? Could we also stop fat shaming our President while he is golfing. Why not promote his flexibility?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2017, 09:46:57 PM »
Interesting that a guy using Eligo notices no one on the course when he plays.
Duh! That's why they let him on!
Those he did see were probably friends of the locker room guy or the bartender....
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 06:04:25 PM »
I vaguely remember the three martini lunch...

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 11:02:08 PM »
I vaguely remember the three martini lunch...
"I only had tee-martoonies, officer"


If Trump was playing cards with his buds or sitting in the rose garden drinking Buds with his buds would anyone say anything about recharging his batteries for three or four hours on a Sunday? Nope, nobody would say a word.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 10:00:04 AM »
Personally I couldn't care less if Trump or Obama or other president plays golf. And given that Trump's only other known hobbies are watching Fox News and embarrassing himself on Twitter, I'd actually prefer that he played 36 holes 7 days a week. But the reason his golf is a story is because he repeatedly criticized Obama for it, claimed he wouldn't do it, and now the White House is trying to hide the fact that he's playing a decent amount of golf (as if we are really stupid enough to think that he is going to his golf clubs but not playing).

Additionally, his comments have helped further the idea that golf is for rich people.

But anyway, the article rings very true for me. Between work and three young kids, I really have zero time for golf at the moment. And with my wife not working, no money for it either. I'll be lucky to get five rounds in this year.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 09:56:55 PM »
This could be coming back, currently in the new covid bill




But in a concession to the president, as currently proposed the measure would double a tax deduction for business meals from 50 percent to 100 percent, a priority for Trump since at least March, after he reportedly met with several restaurant executives who pitched the idea to him.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 10:19:18 PM »
Of course, deductible meals at Trump's clubs would add to his  coffers.


Further investigation reveals this in the new Covid bill submitted by the Senate:


The Senate GOP coronavirus relief bill includes an unusual $8B procurement/acquisition effort, including: —$1B for Navy P-8 planes —$2B for F-35s, C-130Js and the A-10 wing replacement —$2.2B for shipbuilding (four expeditionary medical ships and an Expeditionary Fast Transport




"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 11:26:28 PM »
Spot on article.  The pace of modern life now is not conducive to golf.  It’s a “me wants it now” world and golf is on the losing end.  I yearn for the uncrowned course full of walkers, and will happily make time for golf for the rest of my life regardless of my situation(s). 
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2020, 01:01:15 AM »
Spot on article.  The pace of modern life now is not conducive to golf.  It’s a “me wants it now” world and golf is on the losing end.  I yearn for the uncrowned course full of walkers, and will happily make time for golf for the rest of my life regardless of my situation(s).


Didn't even read the article, which is three years old.  I just searched for 'three martini lunch' based on an item in today's news.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2020, 01:41:05 AM »
With the Trump administration apparently pushing (if they already haven't) to revert back to the meal deductibility for business lunches perhaps this will help golf clubs. Knowing the obvious benefit to his golf courses, I can see a line in whatever tax code is passed/amended to allow for entertainment expenses such as golf fees coming back with the meal deductions.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2020, 10:07:47 AM »

5. As a business' tax deduction I dunno; but as a personal deduction, for which and how many total taxpayers would this push you over the $12,000 S/$24,000 M standard/itemized threshold?  When you line that up with the private golfing club public, you realize that this IS a rich man's game and no amount of hoping or analysis or historical revision is going to change it.

4. Whether a real effort or not, it will be hard to prove that deduction meaningfully during the 2020 Tax Year when nearly every club forbade or limited guests.  Of course one can just lie, cry and wave a flag as the top has done for a thousand years in all things.


3.
I have long thought that when the travel and entertainment deduction got whacked 20 some yrs  ago that clubs took a big hit from which they never recovered.


I don't know which whacked "deduction" you were referencing, but certainly in the last 20 years I processed dozens of such "de facto" deductions at my one club and the practice is still meaningful at the scores of other clubs I'm aware of... pharmaceutical, life insurance, technology companies, all sorts... host a "conference" at a sponsoring member's club.  This is an outing really, but small in size....8-24 people, lunch, caddies, carts, even gratuity all go on the members bill;  the hosting organization reimburses the member doctor, the member-insurance company VP, etc  and those parties take as much they are allowed personally, while the corporation takes as much as they can for entertaining expenses.  The bottom line is the private clubs didn't take a hit in this area; it did nothing to golf in this area; any changes in the rules are just a new line for lawyers or tax accountants to wiggle round, appeal or sue until the letter matches their spirit. If the 3-martini golf deduction was the line for an individual member staying/using/affording his private club, then their condition was suspect anyway... The 2007-09 Recession is what did the damage you're referencing and that to just to the weakest private clubs, whose members were quickly glommed into dramatically discounted new memberships at other area clubs.


2. [/size]
With the Trump administration apparently pushing (if they already haven't) to revert back to the meal deductibility for business lunches perhaps this will help golf clubs. Knowing the obvious benefit to his golf courses, I can see a line in whatever tax code is passed/amended to allow for entertainment expenses such as golf fees coming back with the meal deductions.


Orange MaxFli and his administration and the Republican Senate don't know or care what the law is or not.  Second, he and Moscow Mitch are not going to be writing or enacting any more Atlas Shrugged tax codes this term and this Congress, maybe in the next one...but not this one.  Third: How much more rich man's golf welfare can we underwrite than the olymPPPig-sized scam we just suffered which private clubs hi and lo vacuumed up?


1. As some have inferred, I too find the original piece to be more about sensation than substance, more than a bit outdated and hyper-selective in what it touts as universal evidence for its assertions. It's also got a malaprop spirit, in that its analysis of causes and remedies, it mixes the private club world's concerns of cost, business transaction, family and time with a general downtick of golf that is MORE meaningfully felt in the diminishment of play at everyday public venues, semi-privates and munis, where costs are notoriously low, business was rarely transacted, ones family is not a part of it and millions played every weekend through 4:45+ rounds at their home track for 100 years.  Any downtick in golf is not being felt at Pebble Beach, nor at very many Top 500 American clubs discussed here.
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2020, 10:18:14 AM »
V,


You have done more for the use of three wheeled push carts than Pythagoras himself.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 10:36:04 AM by John Kavanaugh »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2020, 04:36:04 PM »
Priceless

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 04:40:42 PM »
“Third: How much more rich man's golf welfare can we underwrite than the olymPPPig-sized scam we just suffered which private clubs hi and lo vacuumed up?“
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]VK - this was intended to keep club employees on the payroll. Is it your opinion that club members should pick up the tab for non-working employees internally?[/color]

John Handley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 04:46:29 PM »
Well this COVID/quarantine thing on the whole is brutal, it has actually done wonders for the amount of golf I am playing.  I'd normally play between 50-70 rounds per year, I expect to get in over 100 this year.  YEAH golf.  Boo COVID


BTW, I was once told martinis are like breasts....one is not enough, and three is too many.  Not my words but there may be something to it.
2024 Line Up: Spanish Oaks GC, Cal Club, Cherokee Plantation, Huntercombe, West Sussex, Hankley Common, Royal St. Georges, Sunningdale New & Old, CC of the Rockies, Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, Formby, Royal Liverpool, Swinley Forest, St. George's Hill, Berkshire Red, Walton Heath Old, Austin GC,

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2020, 05:14:21 PM »
ROFLMAO


This is the thread where I finally realized most of you need to get out and play with people that don't look or play like you more.


If only you knew how golf-mad people in their late 20's are becoming.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 05:20:16 PM »
ROFLMAO


This is the thread where I finally realized most of you need to get out and play with people that don't look or play like you more.


If only you knew how golf-mad people in their late 20's are becoming.


So I too might be able to laugh my ass off, can you develop on your last sentence? 

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2020, 05:26:18 PM »
I can add that GCA darling LuLu, just outside of Philadelphia, has added close to 200 members this year...the owner said “yeah, but about 75% of them are in their 20’s so only pay about $2,500!”

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf and the 3-Martini Lunch
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2020, 05:56:27 PM »
I can add that GCA darling LuLu, just outside of Philadelphia, has added close to 200 members this year...the owner said “yeah, but about 75% of them are in their 20’s so only pay about $2,500!”

They're not dumb.  Many are free to play every day because of COVID, and are enjoying unlimited golf for a monthly price that would buy them 2 weekend rounds at an upscale daily fee course.  Kind of absurd.  Especially when they gripe about stuff.