Best 18 Holes Built in the Last 50 Years - Consensus (see p. 6)

[Tom_Doak]

As I've said in the thread about Ran's list, building an eclectic 18 is hard to do.  Let's explore that, and see if there ARE any consensus choices for the best of modern golf architecture.


Guidelines:


Each poster is allowed to nominate up to 9 holes.


Each hole you nominate must be by a different architect!


I will tally up the votes for each hole and see where we're at.  At the end, we will certainly have to make some "editorial" decisions if we want the course to feature 18 different architects and come out to something like par-72 and not have three par-3's in a row -- though we don't have to! -- but we will also have raw data on what are the best holes without those guidelines.




I will go first:


8th at Sand Hills - Coore & Crenshaw
11th at Cabot Links - Rod Whitman
15th at Shadow Creek - Tom Fazio


14th at Muirfield Village - Jack Nicklaus - if it doesn't get changed too much
15th at Kingsley Club - Mike DeVries
8th at Streamsong (Black) - Gil Hanse - I'm pretty sure this is the right hole, not the windmill hole, but the one with the low ridge on the approach


11th at Tobacco Road - Mike Strantz
5th at Long Cove - Pete Dye




Gotta think more about my last one.

[Kyle Harris]

You're thinking of the right hole for Streamsong Black. #12 would be my nomination, though.

Streamsong Red #7 has to be in this discussion.


Kingsley's 3rd for me. (I was surprised by the nomination of the 2nd by Ran).


Another vote for the 11th at Tobacco Road.


I'll have to think on others. My Pete Dye is limited.

[Tom_Doak]

Streamsong Red #7 has to be in this discussion.

I thought of that hole right away (and also the 9th), but the Lion's Mouth green is such a staple of Bill and Ben's work that I went with the original of it.

[Jamie Pyper]

# 3 Castle Stuart

[Jamie Pyper]

# 2 Cabot Cliffs
# 3 Castle Stuart Gil Hanse
3

[Jamie Pyper]

sorry gents - technical difficulties[size=78%] [/size]

[Brett Wiesley]

I'll give it a go...caveat, I only used courses I've played.


#7 par 4 - Cal Club - Kyle Phillips
#8 par 5 - Ballyneal - Doak
#11 par 4 - MPCC Shore - Strantz
#3 par 4 - Applebrook - Hanse
#18 par 4 - Sand Hills - C&C
#15 par 4 - Gozzer Ranch - Fazio
#16 par 4 - Bandon Dunes - DMK
#7 par 4 - May River - Nicklaus
#17 par 3 - Old Tabby - Palmer

[Jeff Schley]

I assume we are only doing original designs yes?  I will assume so. 

• Gil Hanse - Ohoopee Match Club #17 par 4 - sucker for beauty
• Dennis Rider - Wolf Creek Golf Club #8 par 3 - wanted to pick 12, but have Kyle Phillips at Kingsbarns for that. This is a 250 yard downhill par 3.
• Tom Fazio - Bulter National #18 par 4 - dogleg with water of course (it is Butler National) to a very tough green.  The Quarry at La Quinta #10 par 5 - Fazio is known for his beauty so this is exactly that with a reachable par 5 with a picturesque water fountain to the right of the green.
• Kyle Phillips - Kingsbarns #12 par 5 - long SOB, like a longer version of Pebble Beach #18, but with a tougher green at the end of the ocean.
• Tom Doak - I wanted to put #7 at Barnbougle, but couldn't overlook the 13th at Pacific Dunes par 4. Just a beautiful hole.
• Jack Nicklaus - Mayacama 18 par 5 - reachable, tree in the fairway, water all the way to the green, clubhouse in the background a visually stunning hole and a tough layup if you have ot deal with the tree.   Not changing the #18 from Devries so I'll go with #14 at Muirfield Village.
• Coore & Crenshaw Friars Head #15 par 4 - Just a beautiful downhill hole with strategy as the fairway meanders right and back left.
• David McLay Kidd - Bandon Dunes #16 par 4 - hard to pick just one here.
• Pete Dye - I would love to say the 17th at TPC Sawgrass, but my favorite is #17 at Whistling Straits par 3 - lovely hole with dropoff left and wonderful large bunker short right.
• Mike DeVries - Cape Wickham #18 par 4 -  (NOT BUMPING THIS ONE OUT) just a gorgeous and potential hero carry around the ocean. I could really start teh Mike Devries fan club from this course alone! Love it.

EDIT: Didn't realize i screwed up by putting multiple 18/17 in here so changed it out to not repeat holes.

[Ronald Montesano]

All courses that I have played. Top-shelf holes. Not all are known around GCA.



ARCHITECT            COURSE                         HOLE         LOCATION


Scott Witter           Ironwood                        #7            Cowlesville, NY


Doak, et al.             Old MacDonald               #3             Bandon, OR


Coore, et al.            Bandon Trails                 #6             Bandon, OR


Hurdzan, et al.        Harvest Hill                    #18           Orchard Park, NY


Fry, et al.                Arcadia Bluffs South       #15           Arcadia, MI


RTJ2                       Chambers Bay                #12           University Place, WA


Kidd                        Bandon Dunes                #16           Bandon, OR


Strantz                    Tobacco Road                  #9            Sanford, NC


RTJ1                        Crag Burn                       #16           East Aurora, NY

[Wayne_Kozun]

16 - Rod Whitman, Cabot Links

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ruddy - Portsalon 2 or European 12
Hackett - Carne 17 or Donegal 8 or Enniscrone 13
Hawtree - Balmedie 3
Phillips - Kingsbarns 6
Hanse - Castle Stuart 3 or Craighead 10
Doak - Renaissance 8


To try and balance the American bias...

[Steve_Lovett]

Stream of Consciousness:


3 - Old MacDonald - Doak/etc
16 - Bandon Dunes - Kidd
11 - TPC Sawgrass - Stadium - Dye
4- World Woods - Fazio
15 - Chambers Bay - RTJ II
5- Pebble Beach - Nicklaus
13 - Tobacco Road - Strantz
18 - Kapalua Plantation - Crenshaw/Coore
6 - Bay Hill - Palmer after Wilson
14 - Coeur d'Alene - Scott Miller/Mike Asmundson

[Ira Fishman]

Courses I have played.


Phillips--Kingsbarns 7
Dye--River Kohler 5
Doak--PD 16
Hanse--PH 4 12
C&C Streamsong Red 15
Fazio--Wild Dunes Original 18th
Hackett--Waterville 17


Ira

[Jamie Pyper]

Only holes I've played...


# 2 Cabot Cliffs            Bill Coore# 3 Castle Stuart          Gil Hanse
# 4 Barnbougle Dunes  Tom Doak     
# 4 Portstewart            Bernard Findlay/Des Giffin
# 15 Kingsbarns           Kyle Phillips
# 16 Cabot Links          Rod Whitman
# 16 Goodwood            Martin Ebert
# 16 Bandon Dunes      DMK
# 17 Carne                  Eddie Hackett

[JMEvensky]

11 - TPC Sawgrass - Stadium - Dye

One of my favorites too but I bet we're in the minority.

[Peter Flory]

Edit- I forgot about Castle Stuart...


2) Kingsley (MD)
3) Old Mac (TD)
4) Kingsbarns (KF)
5) Lost Farm (Coore)
6) Whistling Straits (Dye)
9) Erin Hills (H/F et al)
11) Castle Stuart (Hanse)
13) Tobacco Road (Strantz)
16) Bandon Dunes (Kidd/ JH)

Definitely difficult to do.  Without the architect restriction, it would have been much easier. 

[Ira Fishman]

Steel--Primland 8


Ira

[Thomas Dai]

A few from GB&I -


Cruit Island - 6th - Michael Doherty.
Channel Course at Burnham & Berrow - 8th - by Hawtree I believe
Cashen Course at Ballybunion - 15th by Jones
Carne (Original) - 17th by Hackett
Carne Kilmore - 7th by McIntosh (cheque in post please Ally!)
The Bann at Castlerock - 2nd, 3rd or 8th - designer unknown to me but did a super job
Castle Stuart - 3rd - Parsinen/Hanse
That’ll do.
Atb

[Mike Baillie]

Not as well travelled as some

Cabots Links 16 over 11                          Whitman
Cabot Cliffs 2 over Kapalua 18               Coore & Crenshaw
Goodwood 16                                            Mackenzie & Ebert (perhaps Steel as the course took years to open for play)
Forest Dunes 17                                        Weiskopf
Streamsong Blue 4 over Loop Red 12    Doak
The National 13 over 7                              Fazio
Deer Ridge 18                                             McBroom
Greystone 15                                              Carrick

[John Emerson]

5th Royal New Kent - Stranz
17th Dye Course @ French Lick - Dye
4th Sweetens Cove- Collins/King
4th Streamsong Red-C&C
18th Heritage Hill-Beach*-homer pick. Great hole that everyone plays, without fail, incorrectly.  Maybe not the best in the last 50yrs but it’s a great hole.  This will be the lone vote

[Pete_Pittock]

Pensacola CC Hole #7 238 yds.
Jerry Pate
reverse redan and The favorite of Bill McBride


TPC Scottsdale Hole #17 332 yds.
Weiskopf/Moorish
Haven't and most likely won't play it.  Great range of scoring possibilities on the penultimate hole. More strategy than TPC Sawgrass.  May be bumped by one of the hole at Loch Lomond, which I have not seen, either.

[Garland Bayley]

Doak 16 Pacific Dunes
Hixson 7 Wine Valley
Hanse 10 Crail Craighead
Harbottle 12 Juniper
Jones Jr. 14 Chambers Bay
Coore & Crenshaw 4 Bandon Trails
Whitman 9 Sagebrush
Hawtree 8 Channel Course  Burnham & Berrow
Hackett 17 Carne

[Duncan Cheslett]

I don't think I've played nine courses built in the last 50 years so I'll sit this one out!

[Andrew Harvie]

-Rock Creek Cattle Company, hole 10 -- Tom Doak
-Sagebrush Golf & Sporting Club, hole 2 -- Rod Whitman
-Bandon Trails, hole 11 -- Bill Coore & Ben Crenshaw
-Sutton Bay, hole 2 -- Graham Marsh
-Gamble Sands, hole 2 -- David McLay Kidd
-Aldarra, hole 8 -- Tom Fazio
-Predator Ridge (Ridge), hole 6 -- Doug Carrick
-Öviinbyrd, hole 14 -- Tom McBroom
-Mickelson National, hole 12 -- Rick Smith

[Ken Fry]

Like most, only holes I've played although I bet many of mine may be one vote holes.  9 holes par 36:

Kingsley Club Hole #12 - Devries
Wolf Run Hole #11 - Smyers
Warren at ND Hole #16 - C & C
Lost Dunes Hole #12 - Doak
TPC Scottsdale Hole 17 - Weiskopf
Harbor Shores Hole #11 - Nicklaus
Whistling Straights Hole #12 - Dye
Dunes Club Hole #8 - Nugent
Victoria National Hole #15 - Fazio

Ken