[Tom Buggy]

I have just completed research on the Dutcher Golf Course in Pawling NY. I believe Dutcher is the oldest continually operated public golf course in the U.S. In 1885, John B. Dutcher built a private 3-hole golf course for his friends and the guests of his Dutcher House Hotel; it was named the Dutcher House Golf Course. In 1890, the course was renamed Pawling Golf Links and opened to the public; it was expanded to 9 holes in 1901. In 1955, a Dutcher family descendant deeded the golf course property to the Town of Pawling with the stipulations that it be named Dutcher Golf Course and that it remain a golf course in perpetuity.
The Van Cortlandt Park golf course in New York City, which opened in 1895, has claimed to be the oldest public course in the U.S. However, Dutcher predates it by five years, albeit as a 3-hole course. I believe Dutcher is the oldest public course in the U.S.; Van Cortlandt Park is the oldest 9-hole public course and the oldest municipal course.
I have updated the description of Dutcher Golf Course in my book The Golf Courses of Dutchess County.

[Peter Flory]

Did you come across any early photos of the 3 hole version? 

[Tom Buggy]

Unfortunately, no photos of the 3-hole course.

[MCirba]

Just ordered your book, Tom.   Thanks for the update.

[Tom Buggy]

Thanks MCirba. Curious, why your interest in Dutchess County golf?

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:


It would be interesting to see what your research dug up, as in old articles or other evidence to prove the assertion.


Here's what I have for golf in Pawling -


April 27, 1898 Brooklyn Daily Eagle notes Tom Bendelow laid out a private course for J. B. Dutcher in "Paulding."

May 5, 1901 Brooklyn Daily Eagle notes new 9 hole course for the Dutcher House GC laid out by Val Flood nearing completion.

1902 Golf guide notes Dutcher GC has a 9 hole course on the estate of J. B. Dutcher.

1902 Spalding Golf Directory notes Dutcher GC has a 9 hole course.

Pawling School GC built around 1907 when the school moved from Garden City to Pawling.

1908 Golf Guide notes a 2,440 yard course for Dutcher GC.

Quaker Hill GC in Pawling noted in the 1923 to 1931 Annual Guides with a date of formation of 1880 and 9 holes.

Devereux Emmet designed a course for Pawling G&CC at some point (most likely in the 20's) that was never built.


There are a ton of missing pieces needed to put the whole story together.  Was the Bendelow layout the first course, or did he update an earlier course.  Was the Flood course an entirely new layout?  Was this when the course first had 9 holes, or did the Bendelow version have 9 holes as well?

[Ronald Montesano]

Oldest in North America is Niagara On The Lake Golf Club, I believe. Nice little 9-hole track on the shore of Lake Ontario. Not far from the Niagara Fallses, CAN & USA.

[Tom Buggy]

Sven, the establishment of the 3-hole Dutcher House course in 1885 is documented in a 2011 article in the Dutchess County Historical Society Yearbook, and in a paper written by Drew Nicholson, the former Pawling Village Historian. Both documents include content about the course being opened to the public in 1890 as the Pawling Golf Links course. An April 1996 article in the Harlem Valley Times newspaper confirms the 1890 opening to the public: "Residents f the Harlem Valley have been able to play the course since 1890, when it had just three holes."

Both the Historical Society and Nicholson articles suggest (Nicholson says "apparently") that the course was expanded to 9 holes in 1890. My research found convincing newspaper evidence that the expansion to 9 holes occurred in 1901. In addition to the May 5 1901 Brooklyn Daily Eagle article you cite, May 1901 articles in the Amenia Times and the Poughkeepsie Eagle-News document the 9-hole course construction. The April 1898 Brooklyn Daily Eagle article about Tom Bendelow laying out a private course for J.B. Dutcher is new news to both me and the Pawling history folks. Either John Dutcher didn't use the Bendelow design or Val Flood implemented it three years later in 1901. The Brooklyn Daily Eagle article says Flood "laid out" the links; the Poughkeepsie Eagle-News article says Flood "superintended the work."Another unknown is the disposition of the original three holes in the 1901 expansion, i.e. where they incorporated into the 9-hole layout, or where they abandoned in a "new" 9-hole course. I intend to research the unknowns via the Pawling history folks, including the possibility that there may be Dutcher family papers that might contain additional information.
By the way, with my original post I tried to attach a PDF document and it couldn't be done. If you will send me an email at tbuggy@aol.com, I will send you applicable information.

[MCirba]

Thanks MCirba. Curious, why your interest in Dutchess County golf?

I like old stuff and that region was certainly in the forefront of the origination of the budding game in the United States.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:


Are there any contemporaneous sources for any work prior to 1900, other than the Bendelow article I cited?


I don't put much reliance in articles written 100 years after the fact as any kind of evidence.  It would be nice to see something from the early days discussing the 3 hole course.


The Bendelow article describes the course he laid out as a 2,678 yard course (seemingly 9 holes) on the Maplewood farm of J. B Dutcher at Paulding.  Was Dutcher's Pawling land known as the Maplewood farm?


Sven

[MCirba]

Tom/Sven,

Not to complicate matters further but came across this July 1901 NY Sun article;

[Tom Buggy]

Sven:
I too am looking for contemporaneous information about the 3-hole course - via the author of the Historical Society article, the retired village historian (who has not responded to email and postal mail, and I'm not sure he's alive), and John Dutcher papers if they exist. There are a few related specifics that must have a basis somewhere: an 1870s trip to Scotland and meeting Old and Young Tom Morris, the tie-in to the start of his hotel in 1884, and the building of a train stop platform at the course in 1886. Yes, Maplewood Farms is the name of Dutcher's farm (he was into horse breeding).

[MCirba]

Another later article claimed that M. Frank Meehan worked with Dev Emmet to lay out the first course at Garden City Golf Club, those holes still being in use at the time of the article in the mid-teens. 

[V. Kmetz]

I'm sure everyone who's interested has seen this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=200&v=Jqe2dIInMws&feature=emb_logo


at 3:22 and 4:08 there are older photos... it would be interesting to find where/what date those photos were taken... the video also purports to describe the location of the RR platform Dutcher is alleged to have built... (which was steps from the course, which has a lineage of routing that is traceable).

Thanks MCirba. Curious, why your interest in Dutchess County golf?

I like old stuff and that region was certainly in the forefront of the origination of the budding game in the United States.

Tivoli's rudimentary course has been proffered on this site as the absolute first course in America from slightly earlier in the same era,; it is on the diametric opposite corner of this same Duchess County which was a 19th and early 20th century Hamptons for the well-off.  There are a lot of old golf curiosities in this region...


Finally, though The Dutcher is usually too busy to fully enjoy in any prime time, it is THE perfect hickory/balata/3 or 4 club golf course for off hours and off season.

[MCirba]

I came across this yesterday from the Armenia (NY) Times, dated May 4th, 1901.

I haven't been able to find a mention of golf at Dutcher House prior, nor does it appear in any of their advertising prior, which is what I was hoping to find.   Will keep digging.



Interestingly, it seems golf links of 9 holes already existed at the nearby Mizzen Top Hotel in Quaker Hill by 1900, per their advertising.  **EDIT** by 1897.

[Tom Buggy]

The article quoted above is one of four which document the completion of the 9-hole Dutcher course in 1901..

[Drew Harvie]

Oldest in North America is Niagara On The Lake Golf Club, I believe. Nice little 9-hole track on the shore of Lake Ontario. Not far from the Niagara Fallses, CAN & USA.

This is true, 1875, but the "continually operated" part in OP is what really makes it murky. For example, even in Canada, Victoria Golf Club, 1893, claims to be the "oldest golf course in Canada still on its original location" because Niagara on the Lake closed for a couple years (for WWI, if I'm not mistaken) which really gives room for semantics

[Tom Buggy]

I should have made the title of this thread "Oldest Public Golf Course in the United States" with emphasis on "public" and "United States." This would not have led us to Canada and other places, or to private clubs. As for the murkiness of "continually operated," in this case it is likely that it can be omitted. It seems that "oldest" alone is sufficient when considering Dutcher and Van Cortlandt Park.

[Ronald Montesano]

Nothing leads us to Canada these days

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:


Seeing as you're asking folks like Stuart Bendelow to change the narrative of the history of Tom Bendelow's involvement with the Dutcher course, it would be nice to see your contemporaneous evidence on the early history of the course.


As of yet, I do not believe you have provided it. 


Thanks,


Sven

[Tom Buggy]

Sven,
Why the cynicism? Or perhaps there's a misunderstanding. I didn't ask Stuart Bendelow to do anything. I contacted him to see if he had any information to corroborate the single newspaper article that claimed a 1898 Tom Bendelow involvement with John B. Dutcher about laying out a Dutcher course. Stuart did not have such information (apparently, Tom Bendelow did not leave any substantial information about his course work). He told me that he has not included Dutcher in his list of Tom's courses because of the lack of corroboration and because he assumed that it was a private course. When I told him that, per current understanding, it would have been a public course in 1898, he suggested the possibility of including it. I suggested that such would be premature given not only the lack of corroboration, but the evidence I had found which suggests a 9-hole Dutcher course opened in 1901 was laid out by Val Flood. Stuart agreed. I told him I would include the possibility of a Tom Bendelow involvement in the research I am doing about the evolution of the Dutcher course.
With respect to the evolution, I have not yet found contemporaneous evidence (including in my own search for Bendelow information). What I have found is that the currently published information about the original 3-hole private course of 1885 and it becoming public in 1890 is based largely on information provided by a past village historian who died in 1975. I have engaged the former president of the Pawling Historical Society. He has offered to search society archives and town records for the following:
-- The records/papers/notes of the deceased town historian   
-- The existence of any personal or family papers of John B. Dutcher     
-- The existence of any records of the Pawling House Hotel with which the Dutcher course was associated.
This work has been delayed by Covid-related unavailability of access to society and town buildings, as well as by the effects of a recent storm. I will keep you and this site informed as progress is hopefully made. (By the way, I believe I have exhausted possibilities obtainable via the Internet, multiple digital newspaper archives, and contemporary golf publications.)

[Sven Nilsen]

Perhaps the cynicism is the result of the discounting of contemporaneous published sources on one point while asserting another point based on word of mouth and later day recollections.


I'm sure you can understand.


Sven

[Tom Buggy]

Perhaps the cynicism is the result of the discounting of contemporaneous published sources on one point while asserting another point based on word of mouth and later day recollections.


I'm sure you can understand.


Sven

I don't understand. I have not discounted the singular published article about Bendelow and Dutcher; I have said that it needs to be corroborated, which hasn't been done yet, and that there are other contemporaneous published sources which cite that someone other than Bendelow (Flood) laid out a Dutcher course that opened three years after the supposed Bendelow layout. Further, my assertion about Dutcher being the oldest U.S. public course is based on longstanding published information that I am trying to verify or disprove with contemporaneous information.

[Sven Nilsen]

I don't understand. I have not discounted the singular published article about Bendelow and Dutcher; I have said that it needs to be corroborated, which hasn't been done yet, and that there are other contemporaneous published sources which cite that someone other than Bendelow (Flood) laid out a Dutcher course that opened three years after the supposed Bendelow layout.


You just did discount the article by calling it it a "supposed" layout.  As of right now, that article is the first mention of a course being laid out (or even the existence of a course) at Pawling.  Whether it was merely a private course for Dutcher on his private land (as that 1898 article asserts), or was used by guests of the Dutcher House is an open question.  What we do know is that of the hundreds of advertisements for the Dutcher House printed in the New York papers in the 1890's and early 1900's golf was not mentioned as a feature until 1901, right after the Flood course was in the works.  If a course existed prior to 1901, as you claim, it would have been typical for the hotel's ads to note its availability for its guests.





Further, my assertion about Dutcher being the oldest U.S. public course is based on longstanding published information that I am trying to verify or disprove with contemporaneous information.


And I am asking to see that contemporaneous information, which has not been provided.  As far as I can tell the "longstanding published information" dates to nearly 100 years after you claim the course was first built.

[Tom Buggy]

We're at a semantic impasse with respect to Bendelow-Dutcher. Given a singular uncorroborated newspaper article, the absence of a 9-hole course until three years later, and the layout of that course ascribed to someone other than Bendelow, I would say that "supposed layout" is a fair term with respect to a Bendelow layout. Further, I have not "discounted" the article; I have said that subsequent research will include an attempt to corroborate the article (for example, via content in John Dutcher papers and/or Dutcher House records, if they exist).
With respect to the primary subject of the evolution of the Dutcher course, I am fully aware of the questions you and others (and myself) have cited, and have said that subsequent research will attempt to verify or disprove existing published information. The remaining research, which I have outlined, is not complete. Until it is, I don't need cynical remarks which at least implicitly question the integrity of the work I am doing.

I don't understand. I have not discounted the singular published article about Bendelow and Dutcher; I have said that it needs to be corroborated, which hasn't been done yet, and that there are other contemporaneous published sources which cite that someone other than Bendelow (Flood) laid out a Dutcher course that opened three years after the supposed Bendelow layout.


You just did discount the article by calling it it a "supposed" layout.  As of right now, that article is the first mention of a course being laid out (or even the existence of a course) at Pawling.  Whether it was merely a private course for Dutcher on his private land (as that 1898 article asserts), or was used by guests of the Dutcher House is an open question.  What we do know is that of the hundreds of advertisements for the Dutcher House printed in the New York papers in the 1890's and early 1900's golf was not mentioned as a feature until 1901, right after the Flood course was in the works.  If a course existed prior to 1901, as you claim, it would have been typical for the hotel's ads to note its availability for its guests.





Further, my assertion about Dutcher being the oldest U.S. public course is based on longstanding published information that I am trying to verify or disprove with contemporaneous information.


And I am asking to see that contemporaneous information, which has not been provided.  As far as I can tell the "longstanding published information" dates to nearly 100 years after you claim the course was first built.

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