News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
 1) “Look at that green”. Said at least ten times.
 2) Rustic— it’s not pristine. It’s farm land so it looks like they just chased the cows off and put golf holes in. Love that.
3) Bunkers with raised part away from the green instead of next to the green. My playing partner had a couple of very challenging shots.
4) Expansive. There’s lots of land there.
5) So different from its neighbor. Old course has more up and down and even play in trees. Udder is wide open.
6) A great par 5. #3 uses the up down to make the challenge for the three shot hole. We played the back first so it came later in the round. #8 is no slouch either.


7) Overcast. The grey skies made the definition of the green contours so clear. It made the usually fun greens stand out even more.


This is a classic example of a standout members’ course. It has plenty of space but the greens favor local knowledge.



AKA Mayday

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2020, 04:10:48 PM »
That's a good summary, Mayday.

Photos of the North course for those interested:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/StonewallNorth/index.html
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2020, 07:41:23 PM »
There might be too many "wow" greens there, overall, but I love nearly all of them as individuals.  Brian, Brian, Eric and Kye all shaped greens there (the first course of mine where they did them all).


On my last visit there, we got to #12, and it is one of the few courses in the world where a green like that one could be overlooked.


Paul Mauer says the two courses will do a record number of rounds this year, but it's all relative; Stonewall is still a pretty quiet spot.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2020, 08:04:21 PM »

On my last visit there, we got to #12, and it is one of the few courses in the world where a green like that one could be overlooked.



The greens are so good there that it is easy to overlook the 12th.  It is one of my faves.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2020, 10:16:24 PM »
I was stunned by 12 green.
AKA Mayday

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2020, 10:31:06 PM »
I thought the terrain on the course was perfect for a golf course. Just enough movement to make things interesting. The greens fit the land.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2020, 01:43:43 AM »
I was stunned by 12 green.


Remind me?

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2020, 08:54:59 AM »
It’s like a large tree fell on the green during construction. It’s a double plateau with an extra spur. My partner hit a great wedge to the back section where the pin was placed and sucked it back into the valley of the green.


I ended up in the runoff right of the green for a nifty chip.


That’s my recollection. I’m not a great rememberer.
AKA Mayday

Rob Hallford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2020, 08:44:41 AM »
I'd describe 12 as a mini-Biarritz green at the end of a ~300 yard par 4.  Front pins require a spinning shot to hold, as the green runs away.  Middle pin (in the valley) requires left-right accuracy--if you're in the wrong section of the valley, you're left with a difficult putt (it's kind of crooked).  Back pins require distance control, as the shelf is small; both over the green and short in the valley take significant skill to recover.  To me, it's a pretty easy 4 but a really tough 3, with tee shot strategy dictated by pin position.  If you play there, remember to check the pin position when you're on 11 tee--it's right up the hill.  My playing partners both hit driver down to 40-50 yards from the green, only to look at the front hole location and realize their folly too late. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2020, 10:15:03 AM »
Personally I would rather try to drive it close and sneak a chip onto the front of the green when the pin is up front, but that's just my game.

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2020, 10:32:29 AM »
Personally I would rather try to drive it close and sneak a chip onto the front of the green when the pin is up front, but that's just my game.


Well that's exactly what i did on Saturday to win the hole, thankfully with a par.. Two other players tried to get cute with the half wedges going in and walked away shaking their heads with doubles. That green is a trip. Local knowledge is a huge factor on that course.


The more you look at it , and the surrounding area, you see how well the course fits into the landscape. Somewhere on the back you could look over at three and really appreciate the  hole. From a distance you get a sense of how beautiful the tee shot is and how much uphill the  shot is.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2020, 01:15:26 PM »
I've said it several times on this site, but Stonewall's North (Udder) Course is one of the most fun golf courses I have played anywhere. I could play it every day and not get bored. Plus, it's fun, strategic and interesting for both the low and high handicappers.

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2020, 03:46:20 PM »
Definitely a course that you could play everyday and have loads of fun.
The greens are as entertaining as you can find and you can drive it all over the yard
UNLESS you want to get close in which case, you better pick a smart line.


Should get a great deal more praise!

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2020, 03:49:20 PM »
My favorite green was #4. Lol.
Mr Hurricane

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2020, 06:19:42 PM »
My favorite green was #4. Lol.


I'm told that one was based on a green at Misquamicut, but I don't remember one that severe.

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2020, 06:51:58 PM »
Interestingly - #12 on the Old Course at Stonewall is only about 400 yards south and runs the same length and direction on the compass and has a "blind drive".


North Course #12 is radical while Old Course #12 is very traditional yet I am really not sure which hole is better.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2020, 07:35:29 PM »
Interestingly - #12 on the Old Course at Stonewall is only about 400 yards south and runs the same length and direction on the compass and has a "blind drive".


North Course #12 is radical while Old Course #12 is very traditional yet I am really not sure which hole is better.




I'm not sure, either.


I suppose after I am gone, some genius will write how the difference between the two holes shows my "evolution" as a designer, so I thought this would be a good place to address that:  nope.


The Old Course was conceived as a traditional Philly parkland course.  The 12th was stuck as being a fairly short par-4, but since you could just barely see the fairway hazards from the tee, I didn't think it made sense to build a hole that was about strategic fairway bunkering . . . and drivable par-4's were not consistent with the style.  So, we decided to make it a traditional drive and pitch, with a cross bunker in front and a very small green.  I struggled with that, because I knew that some women and seniors would have a hard time holding the green from 125-150 yards, but it's not exactly the first hole in Philadelphia like that, so I went ahead.  But you can tell from the little piece of fairway that slips around the cross bunker to the right of the green that I had second thoughts, too.


The great thing about the North Course was that I knew the clients so much better, and they were very open to letting us build something different with the second 18, which I told them would be all about the hole locations on the greens.  That little 12th is a great example, but pretty much every green there [except the short 6th and 9th] gives you a chance to get on the correct side of the hole without having to carry a bunker and stop it quickly. 


That's not an evolution -- that's always been my preference, but I am willing to make exceptions to my rules.  If we had built the first course with greens like the North course, I'd have been just as likely to build the 12th on the Old Course the second time around.


Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2020, 10:26:38 PM »
That's not an evolution -- that's always been my preference, but I am willing to make exceptions to my rules.  If we had built the first course with greens like the North course, I'd have been just as likely to build the 12th on the Old Course the second time around.


Tom - I am not sure if you build the first course with greens like the North course you would have been invited back!  The Old Courses greens are like a study of Philadelphia area greens, lots of slopes and ridges that look subdued but are not and and are not simple to one/two putt, unless you are Stewart Hagestad.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2020, 09:20:35 AM »

Tom - I am not sure if you build the first course with greens like the North course you would have been invited back!  The Old Courses greens are like a study of Philadelphia area greens, lots of slopes and ridges that look subdued but are not and and are not simple to one/two putt, unless you are Stewart Hagestad.


The greens of the original course [I can't bring myself to call it "The Old Course"  ;) ] were precisely a study of Philadelphia area greens.  Gil and I would work weekends and then go play a different course in the area each Tuesday, and usually that would inspire whatever greens we were building that week.  The first one that I can remember is that the 2nd green was inspired by the 7th at Merion . . . certainly not copied from it, we weren't that good on the dozers back then.


The greens of the North course are inspired by every wild green that Brian Schneider and Kye Goalby had ever seen, and they had apparently seen a lot of them  :D [size=78%] [/size]

Matt Frey, PGA

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2021, 12:28:43 PM »
I was fortunate to play the "Udder" course again last week, this time with coworkers. The course was as fun as the first time I played it, and the constant strong wind made the round even more interesting!


This is the first time, however, that we played with higher handicappers and a relative beginner...the fact that they seemingly enjoyed the course as much as I did says a lot. The course is a good fit for all types of players.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2021, 07:33:52 PM »
Matt,
You probably hit on the most important reason Stonewall North is a place to play. Every level of player can enjoy it.


The adventuresome greens provide frustration for the best golfers and amusement park experience for those out for a fun time.
AKA Mayday

Jake Hoeffel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2021, 11:46:11 AM »
I am playing all 36 holes next week!! This thread did nothing to damper my excitement.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2021, 07:01:15 PM »
I am playing all 36 holes next week!! This thread did nothing to damper my excitement.


This was actually all a joke. The course sucks! 
AKA Mayday

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2021, 07:01:22 PM »
 ;D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 07:10:38 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Stonewall —- The Udder Course— words that came to me today.
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2021, 07:55:20 PM »
I often say Stonewall North is the first or second most underrated course in the Golf Association of Philadelphia.  This is because in the homer of all homer towns many of Stonewall’s partners don’t understand how unique and great their “second” course is.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back