WHS and hole rotation systems

[Pete_Pittock]

Strakaline also has an app.  Here is youtube info https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_P7bOMBml8

[Pete Lavallee]

I feel your pain Pete! Our local always sets up with front tees for a back pin, middle tees for the center and back tees for a front pin. We always play the same club no matter the hole location. I understand the need to spread the wear and tear, but front tees to front pins and back tees to back pins would really spice things up. Of course we have mentioned it to the Superintendent and he agreed it was a good suggestion but never followed through. I doubt he could care less about our handicaps! Perhaps he did and we should mention that the new WHS will factor all this in.

[Pete_Pittock]

I feel your pain Pete! Our local always sets up with front tees for a back pin, middle tees for the center and back tees for a front pin. We always play the same club no matter the hole location. I understand the need to spread the wear and tear, but front tees to front pins and back tees to back pins would really spice things up. Of course we have mentioned it to the Superintendent and he agreed it was a good suggestion but never followed through. I doubt he could care less about our handicaps! Perhaps he did and we should mention that the new WHS will factor all this in.

Not any different than the driving range, except for the exercise

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff,


I don't remember you doing much work on 11 green.  The hole was devalued considerably when your client sold off the old 17th hole to an apartment developer (Frank Houseman) and forced the rerouting of 10 and 11, plus the creation of the worst hole on the course on the ground that the rerouting provided (what became the 8th- was Killian or Nugent involved in this work?).


"Old" 11 was a fantastic narrow, mid-iron par 3 usually into a prevailing wind, with the left side saving some wind-induced hooky shots.  I don't remember that the green was re-oriented to the re-positioned tees, shortening the hole by two or three clubs with the shot now to a wide green with the kickplate serving more as a backstop.  It did make for some interesting putts when the hole was on the opposite side of the green, but with a 9-iron from the back tees, it was a hard green to miss (didn't Andrew shoot something like 63 in the club championship one year?).


Anyways, you were not involved in the rerouting, and as I recall, you guys put in bent (SR1020?) when you "modernized" the course.  The right side hole location on 17 became "necessary" because the green site had shade and air circulation issues and most of the flatter left side was in poor condition.  When they converted to Champion and allowed the speed to increase (probably well over 11' avg. during the winter, considering the slopes), a few of the greens could have used windmills and clowns to enhance the theme.


But in hindsight, what once was a top 5 course in Texas at over 7k yards, par 71, home to  a bunch of good players and assorted gamblers, was still challenging and fun at around 6.7k with crazy, way too-fast greens.  And your client did fabulously with the purchase (essentially got it for free after the sale of the apartment land) and your modernization which allowed him to sell the course as the jewel in a package of four or five for a bunch of $millions.  You served him well.  That the course no longer exists is a regrettable story, but one not uncommon throughout the history of the game.  Good memories.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou,


GSW was a Killian and Nugent project before they split up.  They were working nearby at Ditto, and the engineer gave their name to the developer who he also worked for.  In their remodel, the owner elected to save money by keeping 11 as was, despite the playing angle changing 90 degrees or more.  When we redid the greens, we did rebuild it in the right direction, but included a pretty good cross slope for the kick bank.  I remember is was about 2.5%, and the USGA always says between 2 and 3.  Not long after that, playing with Pete Dye somewhere, he mentioned he thought the max cup slope was about 2.25%, and I adopted that.


I texted Andrew to get his low score at GSW.  Yeah, he shot a 63 in some tournament there.  Probably had close to that several times in informal rounds.  BTW, is now living in Kentucky, member at Triple Crown and expecting his first child next week.  Less golf is in his future, LOL.  Also, of all the things he learned at GSW that transfers to his adult life, I believe gambling skills were the biggest part.  Can't count the number of times I picked him up and had to drag him out of some card game.


BTW, Andrew thought the contour made up for the 6700 yards, and says to tell you that you should have just gotten good enough to hit it below the hole......

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff, did you really change the axis/orientation of 11 green?  The old tee remained near the grove of trees surrounding the right fairway bunkers of the new #8 (where the old 10 green site was) and every once in a while I'd go back there and let one fly for old times sake.  It was an excellent par 3.


Good for Andrew.  Congratulations to all of you.  The last time I saw Andrew was not on the golf course, but in the card room where he seemed to in control.  He is one of the very few "pups" to graduate from that hyper-gambling environment relatively unscathed.  There were some interesting characters there.  More than a few just a step ahead of the law.


I played some decent golf while at GSW.  I generally made solid contact with the ball which got me near hole high, but my direction was not good.  When I got lucky and ended with a decent angle, I could make some birdies.  Most of the time I was trying to two-putt for par or bogey.  Plummer's softer, more subtle green design made that simpler, but he had some 300 more yards to balance the challenge.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou,  not in the KN remodel of 1980(?) but, yeah, we did in the 1989 version.  In the original orientation, it would have sloped back to front, facing north.  We changed that to a side slope to the south, adding those two simple (for me) bunkers on the front right.


Andrew was pretty easy to raise.  If he wasn't in his room, he was at the golf course, LOL.    He even married one of the girls who manned the snack shack by 4 green. 


I always encouraged him to play with other adults than me.  I did as a kid and it sort of grew me up, taught me composure (not to say things Dad might have let me get away with, etc.)  Didn't count on the gambling thing, but it doesn't seem to have hurt him.

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff- our noon group used to welcome promising juniors to join our games when there was room, and they were paid no special treatment.  Jimmy Kelson from Grand Prairie went on to play for OK, winning the OK Amateur before transferring to another Div I school.  He went on to lead the Augusta College (now University) as head coach to a national powerhouse, essentially by recruiting foreign talent, South Africa and maybe Zimbabwe in particular (that he could take his best half-dozen players to Augusta National a couple of times each year probably helped).  He went on to Tennessee where he has been the head coach for two decades.  Jimmy had so much natural talent that we only worked on his on-course behavior and throwing water on his ever-growing interest in chasing girls.  Brian Smith was another excellent junior who enjoyed playing, but not practicing.  Last I heard he took over his dad's Putt-Putt empire and is one of the best players at Colonial. Brandel Chamblee played with the group a few times as a guest, but he never hung around after taking our money.


From the younger group with my son, yours, and a handful of others, Zack Robinson went on to earn All American honors at Oklahoma State one year, and was an Academic All American a couple of times.  I played with Zack quite a bit when he was in high school and the biggest difference between him and my son was that Zack practiced relentlessly.  He was not terribly long or a particularly good putter, but his bad shots were never far off.  Unfortunately, my old noon group had split by this time and the new group was less competitive and didn't want to be beaten by juniors.  I think that the boys had a pretty decent game together.  The third, Chris Kraft, went on to have a good career at Oakridge following my son's.  Great Southwest, unfortunately, didn't do much for the juniors, though some of the bookies groomed a couple in other sporting endeavors.