[Carl Rogers]

To elaborate on Tom's last paragraph ......


Through the years, the greens have been extremely well maintained and putt very well.  However bunker maintenance has been sadly lacking for a long time with 2 or 3 filled in each year.  Some may find the forced carry on the18th hole controversial.



The back tees have not been pushed back and the original length of just under 6800 is in tact.  The par on the 3rd hole undergone revision between 4 & 5.

Easy to find off of I-664.


Call ahead as the Riverfront web site makes no effort to indicate when outings of various types consume the entire course.  Fridays are often booked up. 


The green to tee distances and the summer heat makes the cart necessary.


Discovering the course in 2004 (10 minutes from home), this web site with friend Scott Weersing & destination golf changed my life.


As in all his courses, each hole has a lot of design to them.

Finally, I do not think that present ownership really appreciates what they have.

[Carl Rogers]

As Tom's narrative notes, and this web site confirms, Riverfront flies under the radar.


There are significant differences between the drawings of the holes in the book and the built course.  I can walk you through them if contacted.

[David_Tepper]

For those who might not know (like me ), it's in Virginia:

https://www.riverfrontgolf.com/

[Carl Rogers]

Explanations
Design Credits Page iv Top Photo
Hole 10 short par 4 with the only centerline bunker on the course.  Best driving strategy is a function of flagstick location visible from the tee.  Green side bunkers reinforce this.


Picture Page 66
This is the par 3, 4th hole taken with something like a 80 mm lense about midway point across a bridge over a wetland.  Same bridge utilized from 8 green to 9 tee.
Background is the 5th fairway crossing more wetlands.  Back of 4th green is the back tee of hole 5.  Middle and forward 5th hole tees are left outside the frame.  Hole 5 plays differently depending where the golfer tees it up.  The bunker on the right (top edge in view only) is now filled in but not in view from the tee.  The hole plays slightly uphill.


Page 68 Sketch of Hole 8
The wetlands is only visible at the green site.  Dense vegetation all the up the right side of the hole.  Bunkering 100 percent different than the sketch.


Page 72 Sketches of Holes13 thru 15.
Bunkering fairly close to what was built, but Hole 14 plays and feels more like a fishook dogleg.  Hole 15 back tee requires such along carry often into the wind over wetlands  that only the college kids use it.

[Carl Rogers]

Tom said that Riverfront flies under the radar .....True? Why?  I will make a few guesses:
1. Location, Suffolk, VA is not the cross roads of the Eastern US.  Very little out of town play.
2. The course is pre-Pro V1, meaning it is not long enough for VSGA or other local events.  (I could go into a hole by hole review.  Riverfront could be turned into a very very mean par 70)
3. Low Price Point manifests itself in multiple ways:
-bunker maintenance is poor (warning; many bunkers filled in very ineptly).  If you are in the camp that says bunkers are hazards, then this is your course.
- range balls always in need of replacement
- too many once every other month golfers (the course is way too hard for them).  Too many rounds per year.  The greens on the par 3's have too many ball marks.
-practice green is not is not a course green.  difficult to translate practice condition to course condition
4. Many would find the Greens and Green Complexes way too unusual and difficult for the area. Resistance to scoring very high.
5. The course has a general subtlety off the tee and on approach shots that will make many very better than average golfers "uncomfortable" for multiple rounds.
6. Too much development too close to the course.

Riverfront never wins any popularity contests with mainstream golf organizations.  Too unique.  The course is outside the typical raters process.

My conclusion is that:
A.  The course needs to be semi- private ...yank up the greens fee.  It would be worth it.  Fewer rounds played equates to easier maintenance.
B. Market the course
C. Build some back back tees

[Mark_Fine]

I always thought Riverfront was an excellent design (except for 18 which is not).  I even said in the past that I thought Riverfront is a good example of how the setting influences opinion. Many of the greensites at Riverfront are as good or better than those at Pacific Dunes but I doubt many will agree as they are looking at everything else in conjunction with them. So be it. 

[Tom_Doak]

2. The course is pre-Pro V1, meaning it is not long enough for VSGA or other local events.  (I could go into a hole by hole review.  Riverfront could be turned into a very very mean par 70)

4. Many would find the Greens and Green Complexes way too unusual and difficult for the area. Resistance to scoring very high.

5. The course has a general subtlety off the tee and on approach shots that will make many very better than average golfers "uncomfortable" for multiple rounds.

Riverfront never wins any popularity contests with mainstream golf organizations.  Too unique.  The course is outside the typical raters process.

I struggle with critiques like these.  It is too short, but the resistance to scoring is very high?  That sounds like it's still in balance to me, though maybe not as conventional as other courses.  It seems like the VSGA would have events for the whole spectrum of golfers, and Riverfront could easily handle most of them; even the bomb and gouge boys wouldn't find it too easy.


It is too unique?  It's really not that different, it's just got a really interesting set of greens, unlike anything else the locals are familiar with.  But I don't see why players who aren't familiar with that style wouldn't be able to enjoy it.


Certainly, all the housing detracts from the course, but I would suggest the reasons they don't hold events there are that:
 
(a) the management does not seek them out, and/or
(b) the state golf association doesn't trust the management company to have the place in shape for an event.




I can tell you that right from the beginning, they were concerned if any course could command a high enough green fee in that local market to make ends meet.  Sleepy Hole, down the road, was about $25 and that set the standard for everyone else, even if it wasn't a very high standard of conditioning.  It is hard to win the race to the bottom on price.

[Carl Rogers]

Tom,.
I am trying to address the "under the radar" issue.  I should have kept quiet.



The course is only too short for the Division 1 & 2 college kids.  For me it is all I can handle from the White Tees.


When I say it is unique, it is only unique for the area.  Some people do not like unique.  A number of local college players have made non-positive comments about it through the years.


I am lucky to live 10 minutes away.

[Bernie Bell]

Not sure what exactly is meant by under the radar, and traveling/vacationing golfers may be irrelevant to your point.  But from a golfer who lives within driving distance, the main factor is location.  From DC and Richmond, it's on the far side of some good courses in Williamsburg.  From Va Beach, close, but not as close as Cavalier or VB Nat'l. 

[Tom_Doak]

Carl:


You don't need to keep quiet.  I know you're a fan of the course.  I just don't think you should repeat others' criticisms of it, as it sounds like you accept them as valid.


You would think that if a young golfer was smart enough to go to college, they would understand that building a course that challenges them, without beating up badly on everyone else, is THE WHOLE POINT of design.  But, no.


I do not listen to anyone who declares a course "too short" unless they are shooting under par there consistently.  And anyway, I'm not sure it's possible to build a course that is not "short" by the standards of today's elite 20-year-old players.  But, when they complain about it, I think what they are really saying is that the course is not long enough to eliminate some of their shorter-hitting adversaries.  They would be mortified to lose to a straight-hitting senior player, and Riverfront [like any Open Championship course] is a place where that could happen.


P.S.  It was very good for me to watch the video of Kyle Berkshire playing Pacific Dunes [which was once criticized for being too short].  He could reach the 16th hole with a 4-iron, but he still had to hit a really good little chip to make birdie.  He could fly the bunkers by ten miles downwind, but other bunkers sometimes came into play, especially if he was off line.  Of course, it's probably not representative as he had a pretty windy day to play it [although it was designed with that in mind], but it was anything but a pushover for him.

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