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Mark Mammel

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William Watson, forgotten designer
« on: June 15, 2020, 11:08:04 PM »
Some years ago there was an interesting thread regarding the origins of the White Bear Yacht Club in White Bear Lake, MN (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?action=search2).    I’m sure many of you have taken a look at the piece written about WBYC by Ran Morrissette. As Ran and I went through what we know and don’t know about the origins of the course, I gave a careful look at the articles and references I have regarding our Donald Ross origins, something generally accepted by most and about which we take pride. I think we need to take another look at the record, and share the credit for this remarkable classic layout with a designer who has been mainly overlooked by history, in spite of his involvement in the origins of many well- known Minnesota courses, including Bryn Mar (an MGA founder, now gone), Interlachen, and Minikahda, where William Watson was the original professional and course designer.
   Who is William Watson, why do I believe we must credit him with the layout of the golf course at White Bear Yacht Club, and why has he been mostly forgotten? It’s a fascinating story, and I will rely heavily on a piece from last summer’s “Hennepin History”, written by local author Joe Gladke.
   William Watson was born in Dura Den in 1860, in Fifeshire, Scotland, about 8 miles from St. Andrews. Unlike most professionals of his time, his father was a wealthy businessman and a member of the Royal & Ancient Golf Club. William was well educated, attending the University of St. Andrews and was a fine musician as well as a golfer, playing for the University on it’s golf team. But his father’s business fell on hard times, and Watson needed a new career. David Forgan, also a well-known golfer, clubmaker and teacher from St. Andrews, had relocated to Chicago working with his brother James at Chicago Golf Club. Having known Watson from St. Andrews, he persuaded him to emigrate to the U.S. and seek his fortune here. In 1898, Watson moved to Chicago. Though a fine golfer, he knew nothing of the golf business. He was a fast learner under the Forgans, and was recruited to Bryn Mar in Minneapolis to become their pro, and to design a new course near Lake Calhoun called Minikahda. Watson soon brought his father and brother to Minneapolis, and started Watson Bros. Golf Club Manufacturers shortly thereafter.
   His original layout for Minikahda was a 9 hole course, fully envisioned with careful bunkering and greens. He followed with the Lafayette Club course. In 1901, he headed for a warmer clime and moved to Pasadena, California. But when Interlachen Golf Club was incorporated in 1910, Watson was lured back to Minnesota to design the course. As noted in the Minneapoils Tribune of March 4, 1910,
 
“The laying-out of a golf course is something of an art, and as the club does not want to make a mistake in the placing of the greens, bunkers and hazards, it was decided to go ahead and get the most expert course-maker obtainable.”
 
   This is where the story gets murky. We know that golfers from all over the Twin Cities were a tight group, and played at each other’s clubs regularly. It was about this time that the leaders of the White Bear Yacht Club made the decision to include golf in the club’s activities for members. Though many Yacht Club members were also members of Town & Country, they spent the summers at the lake, and wanted a testing and creditable venue there.  This takes us to the 1961 history of the club, mostly about sailing, which quotes Margaret Maclaren as follows;
 
“"On a Sunday noon, the summer of 1910, she [Mrs. John G. Ordway] was lunching at the home of her father-in-law, Lucius P. Ordway, at Dellwood.  Among     the guests besides herself were William Mitchell, Henry Schurmeier, and Donald Ross, a very well-known golf course architect.  These gentlemen were discussing plans for a nine-hole course for the White Bear Yacht Club." This account was disputed in the GCA thread I referenced at the start.
 
   We do have two contemporaneous documents about the course’s origin: first, a brochure from 1918 about the course, on display in the golf house, and second an article in “Golfers’ Magazine” from May 1925. The brochure shows photos of many of the holes and includes the statement “William Watson laid it out. Donald Ross gave freely of his advice in its development and Tom Vardon, the professional at the club, was of great assistance.” In the 1925 article, past Commodore W. G. Graves describes that that the early 9 hole course “came into being” but adds no other details, then stating that after acquiring more land “..an 18 hole course was planned. William Watson laid it out. Donald Ross gave freely of his advice in its development and Tom Vardon, the professional at the club, was of great assistance [note that this is a quote from the brochure!]….The original plan tested by play has required very little change or modification. Such changes and improvements as have been made as opportunity afforded have been strictly in line with the plan after experience showed that nothing more was needed. There has been no vacillation and there is no regret for money ill spent and for unnecessary discomfort and interruption to play. ”
   So there we are. It looks pretty clear to me that the layout for the course is Watson’s work. “Donald Ross gave freely of his advice…” What does this mean? We know Ross was in the area by 1916, and certainly could have visited earlier as Mrs. Maclaren remembered. But his firm did not claim the course in its published list of works. Still, many very knowledgeable folks have been here and find much that reminds them of other Ross layouts. Tom Doak, Jim Urbina, Brad Klein and the Donald Ross Society have all at least indicated that it is believable that Ross was here, even though his company records don’t include WBYC.  Certainly many (but not all) of the greens feel like Ross. But, unlike many of his courses, we don’t start with a fairly easy first hole; in fact, surviving the first 5 holes with your score intact is an accomplishment. Morrisette, when we played last fall, said “This course is too good for Donald Ross!”

   So- is WBYC the best remaining example of an original William Watson layout? No question that the basic layout from the 1915 map remains today, though many of the bunkers shown on the map seem odd and no longer exist. What other courses out there have still-visible Watson bones and structure?

 
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

Niall C

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 05:25:04 AM »
Mark


That's an interesting story. I tend to think that the routing is the majority of the design but the actual gca's on here might differ. If Watson did indeed lay out the course ie. actually design/decide the routing and not just building the course, then I'd say he deserves a fair amount of credit.


As an aside, where did you get the information on Watson's early days in Scotland ?


Niall

Sven Nilsen

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 08:19:53 AM »
Mark:


You might find this break down of Watson's work interesting - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61453.0.html


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jason Thurman

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 09:13:59 AM »
The closest I've ever come to feeling like I knew anything about golf architecture was in an Aloft hotel room, about 2 hours after my first play at White Bear Yacht Club, browsing GCA for more information because I just couldn't believe that I had just played a Ross course. An old thread mentioned Watson's possible involvement, and I've been Team Watson since.


"This course is too good for Donald Ross" is a pretty bold way of putting it, but there's an audacity in the routing at White Bear that just doesn't match with my Ross experiences. The way the routing attacks hillsides head-on and brings wild bounces and contours into play, and the way that it tucks a few holes into tight corners where a slinging hook will be tough to play, just doesn't feel like Ross' work.


Mark, as you mention, several greens do feel "Rossy" and I don't doubt his involvement altogether. But just on feel, I'm a believer in the idea of Watson as router.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Mark Mammel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2020, 09:38:17 AM »
Thanks Sven. Here's a link to the article on Watson by Joe Gladkehttps://www.golfheritage.org/the-watson-brothers-of-minneapolis/
How about other Watson designs that are still more or less intact?
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2020, 10:35:41 AM »
Mark -


Thank you for your post and thoughts.


As we discussed yesterday out by the course, the funniest part of this discussion is that what really matters is that we are lucky enough to call such a fun golf course home regardless of the architect.


At your request, I went back and read all of those old WBYC Watson/Ross posts. My own personal opinion and general conclusion is that the course architect is William Watson. While all the old notes were destroyed by the clubhouse fire, the evidence we do have (namely the Commodore's notes from a decade after the course was finalized noting that "Watson laid it out" is likely the key point in all of this.


I think the case for Ross involvement would be much stronger had he included it in any of his own brochures (like he did for extensive remodels for Minikahda and Interlachen, ironically two other Watson originals). As the Commodore notes "Ross gave freely of his advice"... the way I read that is it's most likely that Ross made a trip to the club at some point to suggest and/or advise toward some design changes. For example, did Ross suggest removing the 80-yard waste bunker on 14 when members complained about it in the old age of equipment? Who knows.


Who likely doesn't get enough credit, and whom probably deserved more than Ross, is Tom Vardon. As we know Vardon was a pretty active golf course architect in his own right in the Twin Cities in the 1920's and beyond building (and consulting) with a number of clubs on their golf courses while still the Head Professional at WBYC. Just my hunch, Vardon is likely the one responsible for the removal of a lot of those old bunkers on the original land plan map. Just like any course, White Bear was a young evolving course and Vardon was partly in charge of taking care of the course. There might of been unused or rarely used bunkers that he felt weren't needed anymore so he took them out.


I know there are folks who will say that the course is in line with other Ross designs...but I just don't see it. I don't know of a single green at WBYC that I would look at and say "looks like a Ross green" other than maybe the 14th and that's probably only because there a similar green at French Lick that reminds me of it.


For another example, Ross was on site and built all of the greens at Old Elm Club in Chicago around 1913. That site is somewhat similar to ours, with some "hilly" (for Chicago) holes. However the set of greens there wouldn't remind you of even distant cousins of our big and bold set. However if you look at a place like Belvedere in Michigan you can see pretty clear similarities in design principals (which I believe Ran notes in his profile as well).


So I keep coming back to Watson, who "laid it out" over our extremely severe property, and who probably deserves the lion's share of the credit. Enough so that, in my opinion and given the evidence we have today, it would be unfair to Watson to share design credit with Ross 50/50 as it is split up today.


Heck, being a Willie Watson design should be on par with being a Ross or any number of ODG's. His resume is incredible...early designs at Minikahda and Interlachen, The Ocean and Lake Courses at Olympic, Olympia Fields, Harding Park, as well as Belvedere. Nothing to scoff at!


Pat
H.P.S.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2020, 11:49:01 AM »
This reminds me of a great story:


During the 2002 Canadian Senior Open at Essex, in Windsor, Ontario, Bruce Lietzke was asked what he thought of the club's Donald Ross-designed course. Lietzke answered, "I don't care if it was designed by Donald Ross or Donald Duck, it's a great course."


This said, if Watson deserves credit for White Bear, I hope he gets it.
jeffmingay.com

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 12:07:00 PM »
Mark & Pat,

It sounds to me as though there were a few cooks in the broth, with no slight meant to Watson's efforts.   This from a 1926 Indianapolis Star article;

I'm hopeful your efforts will reveal more details over time.





"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2020, 02:05:33 PM »
Mark & Pat,

It sounds to me as though there were a few cooks in the broth, with no slight meant to Watson's efforts.   This from a 1926 Indianapolis Star article;

I'm hopeful your efforts will reveal more details over time.





To me, that article reads as it Tom Vardon gave an interview in order to get some free publicity??
H.P.S.

Forrest Richardson

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 02:33:42 PM »
Mark Fine and I dove into Watson while working on Berkeley CC (Bay Area). While his name is on the plans, it became obvious to us during the research that Robert Hunter carried out the work. Hunter was a founder and basically drove the club's formation. Berkeley is where Hunter "caught the bug" of golf architecture, 1920-22.


Wastson remained involved at Berkeley, but he pretty much allowed Hunter to make the field decisions. Sean Tully (Meadow Club greenkeeper) is perhaps the "guru" of Watson. In fact, Sean found the "real" photo of Watson while helping us get more info on Berkeley — the photo in the Architects of Golf (Cornish-Whitten) it turns out is NOT William Watson!
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2020, 04:56:42 PM »
I have not gone back to re-read the old thread, but I believe I have always been wary to take sides in the question of who designed WBYC, because it is a singular design and certainly not a boilerplate design for either Ross OR Watson.


I don't know enough about Tom Vardon to opine on whether he had a major influence.


The provenance of the routing is important, but the greens are a huge part of what makes the course so attractive and I would love to know who built them.  There's no way Ross was around for that part, so surely the others must receive some credit for the place.

MCirba

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2020, 05:21:23 PM »
Mark & Pat,

This may help.   From the Fargo (ND) Forum and Daily Republican, May of 1914.

I'm assuming that this is for the expansion to 18 holes, which was taking place around then.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2020, 08:53:21 PM »
Sept. 1, 1916 Minneapolis Tribune discussing Ross working at Woodhill and Minikahda -


"While here Mr. Ross also will go over the White Bear course with a view to rearranging it.  He will probably go to White Bear Monday or Tuesday."


There is no reason to think Ross ever visited Minnesota before 1915 and by all accounts the course had 18 holes at that point.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Mark Mammel

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2020, 09:11:14 PM »
Wow! That's the first contemporaneous document I have seen regarding the design of the WBYC course. It's dated 1914- the 18 holes didn't open until fall 1915 but the map of the layout if from March 1915.Clearly Watson was the designer. Ross's involvement may well have been a "walk through" in 1916, after the course was open. But as Woodhill in the western suburbs opened in 1916, Ross had to have been here previously! The course opens in 1916- 2 years in the making? So clearly Ross had to have been here before 1916. But, as I note above, I think Watson did the layout.I can still imagine both played a role, but I agree with Pat the Watson must get major credit. I think Vardon was responsible for much of the bunkering from 1916-1936.
So much golf to play, so little time....

Mark

MCirba

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2020, 09:32:35 PM »
I think we're getting very close to understanding the complete picture.   


It reminds me of Seaview in 1914-15 where Hugh Wilson designed the routing and obvious bunkering, Donald Ross came in a year later to "stiffen it" with a bunkering plan as amateur Wilson tried vainly to retire from golf design, and then boots on the ground like pro Wilfred Reid and Superintendent William Connellan attended to the implementation.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 10:07:41 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

mike_malone

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2020, 09:34:15 PM »
And I thought we were going to get a full blown Merion bloodletting!
AKA Mayday

MCirba

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2020, 09:40:17 PM »
And I thought we were going to get a full blown Merion bloodletting!

Mayday,

We need more tourniquets these days.  Happy to lend one.   ;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2020, 09:42:49 PM »
Mark Fine and I dove into Watson while working on Berkeley CC (Bay Area). While his name is on the plans, it became obvious to us during the research that Robert Hunter carried out the work. Hunter was a founder and basically drove the club's formation. Berkeley is where Hunter "caught the bug" of golf architecture, 1920-22.


Wastson remained involved at Berkeley, but he pretty much allowed Hunter to make the field decisions. Sean Tully (Meadow Club greenkeeper) is perhaps the "guru" of Watson. In fact, Sean found the "real" photo of Watson while helping us get more info on Berkeley — the photo in the Architects of Golf (Cornish-Whitten) it turns out is NOT William Watson!


Forrest, Mark was incorrect.  That photo is of Watson. It’s just taken at a bad upward angle. Also, I found the best photo(s) to date of Watson. One with his wife in their shop and a portrait photo, which allows you to see the similarities between it and the Cornish & Whitten photo.


Joe Gladke’s article is the best information to date on Watson in Minnesota.  Joe is in my opinion, the best source next to the late Tom MacWood, Sean Tully and myself.  Someday, hopefully Joe and I will get to do further information regarding Watson out here in LA, where the St. Andrew-born son and his wife set-up shop and used as their home base; and where he died and where he is buried.  The City of the Angels... 



Sven Nilsen

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2020, 09:51:01 PM »
Ross was reported as having been in Minneapolis in the fall of 1915 to lay out the Woodhill course.  That is the earliest record I have of him doing work in the state.


The 1925 reports of the course being originally "prepared" by William Watson and "developed" under the advice of Tom Vardon and Donald Ross fit all of the other early reporting.




"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2020, 07:53:37 PM »
The provenance of the routing is important, but the greens are a huge part of what makes the course so attractive and I would love to know who built them.  There's no way Ross was around for that part, so surely the others must receive some credit for the place.


Mr. Doak,


IF Watson (or Ross or Vardon) did in fact route the golf course, would the basic design principals of the green have been in his plan? For example, on a hole with a distinctive green like the 12th, wouldn't the architect have to design that hole from the putting surface backwards? I suppose the devil is in the shaping details, however you would have to assume the first architect would get a lions share of the credit for the greens.


Unless I'm totally off base and in most cases back then an associate or on site engineer would contour and build the greens as he saw fit to the strategy of the hole?




Question for others - did Watson have any known associates that was known to do construction work on his behalf? In particular in Minnesota?
H.P.S.

MCirba

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2020, 08:08:31 PM »
Here's a bit more to document the Watson provenance.

From the November 1916 Winona (MN) Republican'


"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2020, 09:00:31 AM »
Mike -


May I ask where you are finding these articles? They are terrific...
H.P.S.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2020, 10:18:12 AM »
Sure, Pat...glad you find them valuable.

I maintain a number of paid subscriptions to online newspaper archival sites such as www.newspapers.com, www.newspaperarchive.com, and there are a few free ones like one maintained by the library of Congress and another at www.fultonhistory.com

It's time consuming but fun when you find gems like these.  :)
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2020, 10:22:54 AM »
Sure, Pat...glad you find them valuable.

I maintain a number of paid subscriptions to online newspaper archival sites such as www.newspapers.com, www.newspaperarchive.com, and there are a few free ones like one maintained by the library of Congress and another at www.fultonhistory.com

It's time consuming but fun when you find gems like these.  :)


Very cool. What were you searching for? "Watson" "White Bear" or something like that?
H.P.S.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: William Watson, forgotten designer
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2020, 10:31:18 AM »
Sort of OT, but when working with the City of Duluth many years ago, there was the claim that Vardon had designed both Enger and Lester Park Golf Courses.  He probably was more involved in Enger, but we found a letter saying that the pro at Lester Park laid it out, and sent the maps down to Vardon in MSP, who reviewed them and "proclaimed them satisfactory." (from memory, but a typical kind of gca quote.)


It is just a reminder of how golf courses often got built in those days, probably locally designed, certainly locally built, but perhaps with some free or low cost advice from experts (i.e., CBM at Merion).  If Vardon or Watson was in MSP, it seemed like fair game to get them to help somehow.


Just my $0.02
.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

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