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Thomas Dai

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2020, 09:41:03 AM »
One key aspect of the game that so many, maybe just about all, fail to learn or grasp is the element played between the ears.
atb

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2020, 12:11:26 PM »
For me the question becomes not so much "what I should learn" but what should I prefect. I used to be able to hit my drive off the ground, now not so much. I don't have the seing speed necessary anymore. I can hit the ball left to right and right to left but my right to left shot is more difficult to hit.
The shots I do want to perfect are the shots around the green. They include bunker shots, especially long shots, high lobs, low spinners, and chip shots. If you are going to perfect anything the shots around the greens are essential.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2020, 01:14:43 PM »
Drive, Chip, and Putt. Probably a good idea to focus on these as they seem to be most important to the Masters Tournament, USGA, and PGA of America as they focus on them for youth skills.


https://www.drivechipandputt.com/about

Joe Zucker

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2020, 01:17:57 PM »
Asking this question from the other side - what parts of the game can you not appreciate unless you can hit the shot? 


Once you have it airborne and can hit it reasonably straight, I think you can appreciate pretty much everything tee to green.  Sure a redan calls for a draw, but you can make par without hitting one.  I'd love to hit the "proper" shot every time like Tiger does (the low draw to a back left pin, the high cut to a front right pin), but I don't think they are necessary to play golf. 


I think you need some sort of punch shot for windy days and then the rest are short game shots.  A short and long bunker shot, a high and low chip, then lag putting.  After that, the additional shots can be avoided and played around.  After all Martin Kaymer won a US Open without being able to chip.

David Ober

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2020, 05:32:54 PM »
Asking this question from the other side - what parts of the game can you not appreciate unless you can hit the shot? 


Once you have it airborne and can hit it reasonably straight, I think you can appreciate pretty much everything tee to green.  Sure a redan calls for a draw, but you can make par without hitting one.  I'd love to hit the "proper" shot every time like Tiger does (the low draw to a back left pin, the high cut to a front right pin), but I don't think they are necessary to play golf. 


I think you need some sort of punch shot for windy days and then the rest are short game shots.  A short and long bunker shot, a high and low chip, then lag putting.  After that, the additional shots can be avoided and played around.  After all Martin Kaymer won a US Open without being able to chip.


Tiger's arsenal of shots is just amazing -- especially when you consider how few "modern" players play that way anymore.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2020, 06:26:09 PM »
Many club pros have not learned to hit a variety of shots. I played a course in NJ a few years ago with a young assistant. I hit the ball in the trees off the tee. He suggested I chip out. Instead I hit a driver out off the rough under the tree limbs. The ball got two feet off the ground and roled about twenty feet short of the green.  He said, "I'd never have thought off that shot." Too bad he was a good player.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sean_A

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2020, 05:13:35 AM »
Etiquette first
When learning. Keep up.  It’s ok to pick up to keep up

Learn to make basic contact with a tee shot mid and short iron

Learn to chip a bit. Putt 
Short game is boring but can teach clubface control  And start to teach scoring.

+1

Plus, learn to enjoy the day regardless of score/result. If a person is having fun chances are ways to improve will be figured out.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 05:16:22 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2020, 06:00:23 AM »
Etiquette first
When learning. Keep up.  It’s ok to pick up to keep up

Learn to make basic contact with a tee shot mid and short iron

Learn to chip a bit. Putt 
Short game is boring but can teach clubface control  And start to teach scoring.

+1

Plus, learn to enjoy the day regardless of score/result. If a person is having fun chances are ways to improve will be figured out.

Ciao
Agree with this as golf has the etiquette part of the game which is unique and not natural for young kids if all they want to do is win or score low.

Growing up my dad wouldn't keep score with us and said our goal was to hit at least 1 good shot a hole. If we pouted or got frustrated at all we would leave right then. It only happened once when my brother threw his club once when he was 9 I think, my dad said, "OK that's it, get your stuff we are walking back."  I was so pissed at him for we had to walk back to the clubhouse from a remote corner of the course (although not that far actually).
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2020, 11:35:06 AM »
Hitting the ball in the air is a start. Hitting a low check check stop chip is towards the end. What are the shots in between that makes architecture more interesting?


Interesting thread with a lot of thoughts on the first part of John's question -- what shots -- but not as much on the second part -- how do they make architecture more interesting.  Is there a baseline skill below which GCA is of no interest except as a spectator?   

Joe Zucker

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2020, 03:56:49 PM »
Hitting the ball in the air is a start. Hitting a low check check stop chip is towards the end. What are the shots in between that makes architecture more interesting?


Interesting thread with a lot of thoughts on the first part of John's question -- what shots -- but not as much on the second part -- how do they make architecture more interesting.  Is there a baseline skill below which GCA is of no interest except as a spectator?


That's a very interesting question.  I'm going to say no, there is no baseline skill.  Taken to the extremes - if I imagine a game where you could only hit putter or you had to play where the ball never went above 5 feet, I think you might appreciate GCA even more than a tour player who flew the ball to every spot.


The baseline skill of some consistency is probably necessary, but beyond that, GCA is more relevant to the player with fewer shots in their arsenal.  For a player with high spin and high ball flight, angles just don't matter that much.  Over the long run, you can gain a fraction of a stroke by being smart and playing the proper shots.  But a player with only a putter can be gaining/losing a shot on every hole by taking the correct/incorrect angle. 


This isn't true for the high skill player. I'm not saying the game is better this way because there are fewer recovery options when the ball flight can't change or curve, but appreciation of architecture is probably more apparent. 

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2020, 08:42:41 AM »
As I get farther and further away from the Monterey Peninsula, I'm struck by how little is taught on  subjects that effect all golfers, not just ball striking.


 In previous renditions of the Rulebook the Etiquette, canons and tenets, led the tome. Somehow, this tone accentuated this game as a Sport. One's ability, their score, blah blah blah game minders mantras,  aspects of the game, weren't the first thing you read, or, should care about. But now...?       




Hitting the ball in the air is a start?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2020, 12:29:55 AM »
I have a friend that decided he would fish soft hackle flies all year round, regardless of the hatch, regardless of the conditions...


The next year he fished a Wooly Bugger all year round, regardless of the hatch, regardless of the conditions.


I asked him what was up with that and he said he simply wanted to focus on learning all he could about fishing two entirely different types of flies, representing entirely different bugs and stages of bug life and entirely different presentations....


Two years ago I tee'd off with a 5 iron on every hole (except most par threes) during every round I played. I got so I could shape it, hit it hight, hit it low, left, or right...
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Ben Hollerbach

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Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2020, 11:04:52 AM »
Tiger's arsenal of shots is just amazing -- especially when you consider how few "modern" players play that way anymore.


Tiger is truly exceptional, but the fact that he is so gifted in his ball control and so few others are is why instruction should not follow Tigers track.


Asking a new player to try to master one shot type is hard enough, asking them to master all is all but impossible. As long as you can hit one shot on repeat you can play this game pretty well. Maybe not scratch well but easily single digits.





Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: How many parts of the game should you learn?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2020, 02:37:35 PM »
It's amazing to me how normal it is for even a seasoned golfer to have no clue how to read a green. A friend of mine is a 6-ish handicap with a really smooth, effortless and powerful swing. But he regularly has no idea at all which direction a putt will break.


I don't know how you learn to do that. I've always been able to read greens pretty well and the slopes have always seemed obvious to me without plumb-bobbing or aimpointing or whatever. But man, it's hard to understand and appreciate architecture if you can't read a slope.


I liked David's answer in the first reply. Even my mother, whose handicap probably never would have been below 30 had she kept one, has figured out how to move the ball both directions at a cursory enough level to enable an occasional great recovery shot. There's a difference between knowing enough to give yourself a chance when absolutely needed vs. trying to hit exactly the shot called for in every situation. Tiger's ability to do the latter is indeed spectacular, but as Ben notes above, it's a losing strategy for the huge majority of us. But I think it's hard to understand how architecture permits recovery options if you have no hope at all of hitting a recovery shot that looks different from your stock flight.


But I also like Joe's answer above - that having a lot of shots at your disposal might make architecture less relevant for you. And there's an idea on a similar note that I wrestle with a lot. As someone who at least pays a little bit of attention to architecture, I can generally grasp how a hole's layout is intended to challenge and reward a player. I can look at a hole with a bunker that cuts into Position A off the tee, and understand that the hole's strategy revolves around rewarding the player who drives it close to the bunker with a better approach angle than the guy who bails out away from it. But that DOESN'T necessarily mean that I should be trying to get close to the bunker off the tee. The right play for me if I'm trying to score is often to give it some respect, even if I'm making my approach angle a little less desirable, or adding 10 yards to my next shot, or whatever. Being able to say "That's a strategically placed bunker" requires a certain degree of architectural knowledge. But saying "I'm going to avoid it because I don't have a shot that I can trust to skirt it while staying out of it, and I'm better off taking my chances from Position B" is the difference between understanding something at a knowledge/conceptual level vs at an evaluative level. The latter requires greater understanding.


Maybe the answer boils down to something like: It doesn't matter how many shots you have, but rather, how well you understand the shots that a given hole's architecture will accommodate, and your ability to execute each of them.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

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