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Tim Leahy

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Courses designed by Black men?
« on: June 06, 2020, 11:26:09 PM »
Just had a thought about the topic, other than Tiger are there any other courses designed by Black men in the US or any other place in the world? NLE? Hope the GCA historians can enlighten me.
Also for the golf architects do you have any proteges that are Black? None of my Black friends have an interest in GCA, even the golfers.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 11:33:32 PM »
A quick google brought up this article, which identifies three black architects—two older and one, Brandon Johnson, who works (corrected from past tense) for Palmer Design. The article is mostly about him.

Most of the other results were about either Streamsong Black or Bethpage Black. ::)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 01:35:04 AM by Matt_Cohn »

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 11:47:08 PM »
Brandon still WORKS with Arnold Palmer Design. He has done some outstanding work on a couple of Palmer courses here in South Carolina:  Wexford Plantation on Hilton Head Island and Old Tabby Links on Spring Island.


Wexford was a complete redo and the result was brilliant IMHO. Old Tabby was more of a tweak, but it the changes Brandon executed were excellent upgrades to the course.


I’ve gotten to know Brandon fairly well and he is one of the guys who really “gets” old school GCA. I think a great deal of his work at Wexford. He turned a nothing course into a real showpiece.


And, you won’t meet a nicer guy... which is a bonus!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2020, 12:02:20 AM »
I was thinking maybe someone like Calvin Peete or Jim Thorpe had dabbled in it briefly but I really have no idea. Maybe consulted on a TPC course in the 80s or something.

American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2020, 12:18:17 AM »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Rooney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2020, 01:09:37 AM »
Was told by Dusty Murdock when Sand Ridge GC (Chardon) was constructed that Tom Fazio’s #1 shaper was a black man from the south who trucked his own equipment in deference to rentals.
That Fazio relied upon his expertise and intuition for bunker placement.

C. Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2020, 08:42:41 AM »
Clearview Golf Club in Ohio was built and designed by Bill Powell. 


https://www.clearviewgolfclub.com/


It is a very fun course.  They also offer great programs for the community.


I would highly recommend a play if you are in the Akron/Canton area.
chris

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2020, 03:07:23 PM »
Brandon still WORKS with Arnold Palmer Design. He has done some outstanding work on a couple of Palmer courses here in South Carolina:  Wexford Plantation on Hilton Head Island and Old Tabby Links on Spring Island.


Wexford was a complete redo and the result was brilliant IMHO. Old Tabby was more of a tweak, but it the changes Brandon executed were excellent upgrades to the course.


I’ve gotten to know Brandon fairly well and he is one of the guys who really “gets” old school GCA. I think a great deal of his work at Wexford. He turned a nothing course into a real showpiece.


And, you won’t meet a nicer guy... which is a bonus!


Echo these comments.  My interaction with Brandon at both clubs left me with the same impression.  He discussed his relationship and interaction with AP and I got the sense that he learned well.  I hope that the AP brand opens up some doors for Brandon in the future.  He has two really good courses as calling cards.  Despite being savaged by your travelling companion (JK), Wexford in particular impressed me with his adaptation of classical features into what was previously described as a nice, but unspectacular course.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2020, 03:21:33 PM »
Clearview Golf Club in Ohio was built and designed by Bill Powell. 


https://www.clearviewgolfclub.com/


It is a very fun course.  They also offer great programs for the community.


I would highly recommend a play if you are in the Akron/Canton area.
chris
Happened across a current article [size=78%]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/retired-black-military-officers-who-are-golf-fanatics-make-a-timely-visit-to-renee-powell-s-historic-course/ar-BB15agDh?ocid=msedgdhp[/size][/size][size=78%] [/size]

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2020, 06:11:36 PM »
I loved Wexford.  I had diminished expectations since it was a last minute substitute for Old Tabby.  I seem to remember a very fine Alps hole and and a spectacular Biarritz green.  Of course my impression may have been flavored as I was playing hickories on old time features and I had a good day.     
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Philip Gordillo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2020, 06:33:53 PM »
Joseph Bartholomew


https://www.africanamericangolfersdigest.com/joe-bartholomew-a-black-golf-course-architect-designer-in-history/




There was a prior thread here last year.




Joe Bartholomew was an exceptional individual but he was the contractor not the architect.  Raynor designed the golf course and the Metairie founders sent Joe B. to Long Island to see how the Raynor design style is constructed.  Raynor made several trips to New Orleans afterwards to inspect the construction prior to completion.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2020, 07:08:48 PM »
@ Philip Gordillo


Read the rest of the article.... A golf course designer and architect are interchangeable in usage...


The author stated that Bartholomew " was hired in 1933 to design New Orleans’ City Park No. 1 course with landscape architect William Wiedorn. Bartholomew designed and built Pontchartrain Park’s golf course, which opened in 1956.  The course was named in his honor in 1979. City Park’s North course, which opened in 1968, was also designed by Wiedorn and Bartholomew. Bartholomew designed and constructed additional courses in several cities that included Covington, Hammond, Abita Springs, Algiers, and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, as well as one course in Mississippi.  Due to segregation, Bartholomew could only enjoy his creations from afar, but unable to play them."
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 07:34:12 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2020, 10:28:28 PM »
I loved Wexford.  I had diminished expectations since it was a last minute substitute for Old Tabby.  I seem to remember a very fine Alps hole and and a spectacular Biarritz green.  Of course my impression may have been flavored as I was playing hickories on old time features and I had a good day.   
Steve - here is Brandon's Principal's Nose complex at Wexford. Very well placed... if you go to the right you are visually blocked for your approach shot... you have to go to the left (or over) to have a clear view of the green.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2020, 02:37:20 AM »
Clearview Golf Club in Ohio was built and designed by Bill Powell. 


https://www.clearviewgolfclub.com/


It is a very fun course.  They also offer great programs for the community.


I would highly recommend a play if you are in the Akron/Canton area.
chris
Very cool.
The two short films on the Clearview website are very topical and should be seen by all.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2020, 08:10:53 AM »
Whit,


Can you try again with that photo? I don't see it.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2020, 10:19:34 AM »
Whit,


Can you try again with that photo? I don't see it.


« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 01:24:47 PM by Eric_Smith »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2020, 12:36:26 PM »
I loved Wexford.  I had diminished expectations since it was a last minute substitute for Old Tabby.  I seem to remember a very fine Alps hole and and a spectacular Biarritz green.  Of course my impression may have been flavored as I was playing hickories on old time features and I had a good day.   


This reply got me to thinking about Wexford and Old Tabby, so I went back to the scorecards to refresh my failing memory.  As it turns out, I witnessed the referenced match where Mr. Wilson emerged victorious over our good friend Bill McBride.  That was at the Dixie Cup in 2012 (the thrashing courtesy of Jerry K was confirmed).


My round at Old Tabby came a little over four years later at the now by-invitation-only "Thaw Out".  I played with Messrs. Whitaker and Prichett in that one on a wonderful winter day.  Perhaps one of the guys can remind me if Brandon made it that day.  I have recollections of a couple long talks, but now I am unsure that it was at both places.  My impressions of Brandon remain unchanged; both courses that he renovated are challenging and fun, each worthy of several more visits, and he seems to be a great guy,

Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2020, 01:25:24 PM »
Never been to Wexford Plantation, but I really enjoyed my round at Old Tabby and would love to play there again.

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2020, 05:31:50 PM »
Interestingly, Renee Powell, Bill's daughter from the Clearview Golf Course in Ohio, has a list of accolades too long to review here.
A winner on the LPGA, Renee continues to lead quite the golf life, has a hall named in her honor at St. Andrews Univeristy and is also a member of the R&A.


Brandon Johnson is currently, to my knowledge, the sole African American that "sports the red plaid jacket" at an ASGCA Meetings and has been lead principal at Palmer Design for some time.

Oral histories around Louisiana insist that Joe's ghost knows the whereabouts of a secret set of drawings.
  ;)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 05:47:58 PM by V_Halyard »
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2020, 05:52:31 PM »
Just had a thought about the topic, other than Tiger are there any other courses designed by Black men in the US or any other place in the world? NLE? Hope the GCA historians can enlighten me.
Also for the golf architects do you have any proteges that are Black? None of my Black friends have an interest in GCA, even the golfers.


I'm not an architect but have been having this conversation with with Brandon(Who is an architect) and Adam Lawrence of GolfCourseArchitecture.com re this topic. There are some in the pipeline and more in progress. I know of young woman that interned for the Kaisers and Glen Murray (Then GM) at Sand Valley last year and was set for some additional work pre-covid.


More on this to follow for those interested. Will be a small piece but promise to post it here.
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2020, 07:41:53 PM »
Just had a thought about the topic, other than Tiger are there any other courses designed by Black men in the US or any other place in the world? NLE? Hope the GCA historians can enlighten me.
Also for the golf architects do you have any proteges that are Black? None of my Black friends have an interest in GCA, even the golfers.


I'm not an architect but have been having this conversation with with Brandon(Who is an architect) and Adam Lawrence of GolfCourseArchitecture.com re this topic. There are some in the pipeline and more in progress. I know of young woman that interned for the Kaisers and Glen Murray (Then GM) at Sand Valley last year and was set for some additional work pre-covid.


More on this to follow for those interested. Will be a small piece but promise to post it here.
Maybe Ran can do an interview with Mr. Johnson for Golf Club Atlas. Would be interested to hear his views on where GCA is going and maybe he may join the site.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2020, 09:41:41 PM »
I am a big fan of Wexford.  It is a course you shouldn’t miss if you can get access when on Hilton Head Island.  Much improved from what is was and some very interesting “classic style” architecture. I love the center line hazards and the creative green sites.  Golfers might not recognize the history behind many of the new features, but they will have fun playing there.  The 13th hole is one of the best modern Redan's out there, bar none.

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2020, 01:47:46 AM »
Thanks for pic Mike.  I remember that hole or at least that vantage point. 



Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2020, 09:13:11 PM »
 8)


Tim, maybe I'm being a curmudgeon but I really don't care about the color of the guy who built the course. It's time we forgot about all this designation as ........ Americans. It's way past that time for me personally.


Let's consider not thinking of someone as a black or green or yellow person. It's surely needed in our country right about now! It's been ill advised for decades just like the Black Caucus or Black Student Union at colleges. It's the nexus of the issue in many ways.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 09:27:47 PM by archie_struthers »

Anthony Butler

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Re: Courses designed by Black men?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2020, 01:16:19 AM »
8)  .

Let's consider not thinking of someone as a black or green or yellow person. It's surely needed in our country right about now! It's been ill advised for decades just like the Black Caucus or Black Student Union at colleges. It's the nexus of the issue in many ways.


Personally I think it’s up to members of these disadvantaged groups or minorities to decide if they still need specific recognition or representation. Besides which, white people have a whole political party representing their interests almost exclusively.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 01:20:05 AM by Anthony Butler »
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