Best of Arizona

[JWinick]

All,


After spending two months in Arizona and playing a bunch of courses, here are my rankings.   I did not get to play many private clubs as they were not allowing guests.   I played about 35 rounds in 60 days and played many of these courses more than once.   



We Ko Pa (Saguaro)
We Ko Pa (Cholla)
TPC Scottsdale (Stadium)
Talking Stick (O'odham)
Grayhawk (Raptor)
Seven canyons
Papago
Mesa country club
Quintero
Grayhawk (Talon)
Boulders (south)
Talking Stick (Piipaash)
Octavio
Gainey Ranch
Phoenician
Troon north (monument)
Troon north (Pinnacle)
Lookout mountain

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Glad to see Seven Canyons and Papago up there behind the usual suspects. I'm not a big fan of Quintero even though my wife had a hole in one there.  Next time you visit, Southern Dunes, Estrella Mountain, the 2 courses at Verrado and Longbow should be on your play list.

[Joe Zucker]

John, what did you like so much about TPC Scottsdale?  Of the courses on your list, I've played both courses at Talking Stick, Papago (and Southern Dunes).  I felt all of these courses were superior to TPC, which I thought was overhyped.  It's a fun environment with the stands up, but not much memorable or interesting other than the 17th hole, which I really like. 

[JWinick]

I liked the fact that it was a rare modern desert course in which the desert area was playable.   As you can see I don’t love the desert residential golf course community where you have out of bounds essentially on both sides.   Troon actually has mounding that propels balls out of bounds.


I guess I get a little excited playing a course I see on TV so much.   

[Jeff Evagues]

I am not enamored as others about Talking Stick but would second on Southern Dunes.

[Greg Tallman]

Agree with Steve. Played Troon North, Estrella and the original course at Verrado when I was there and felt both Estrella and Verrado were better than Troon.

[Dave Givnish]

Southern Dunes, Quintero, and Wickenburg Ranch are in the "long drive but worth it" category. The new Verrado course is a contender for that too. I'm not a fan of Quintero's par 3s but the rest of the course is solid.
 
As to your others, Boulders North is more interesting to me than the South. Verde River is semi-private so you might not have been able to get out on it. I'd rank it above Gainey, Phoenician, Ocotillo (assume that's what you meant with Octavio), and Lookout Mountain.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The 2 courses at Verrado are The Founders ( Fought & Lehman) and Victory ( Lehman)


Both are residential but not intrusive. I like Victory as there is a good mix of holes there culminating in the par5 18th with an elevated tee and a green fronted by boulders. 

[Daryl David]

All,


After spending two months in Arizona and playing a bunch of courses, here are my rankings.   I did not get to play many private clubs as they were not allowing guests.   I played about 35 rounds in 60 days and played many of these courses more than once.   



We Ko Pa (Saguaro)
We Ko Pa (Cholla)
TPC Scottsdale (Stadium)
Talking Stick (O'odham)
Grayhawk (Raptor)
Seven canyons
Papago
Mesa country club
Quintero
Grayhawk (Talon)
Boulders (south)
Talking Stick (Piipaash)
Octavio
Gainey Ranch
Phoenician
Troon north (monument)
Troon north (Pinnacle)
Lookout mountain

Sounds like the plan to head to AZ during the crisis paid off for you. More golf available there than any other part of the US during that time. Did you encounter any Covid restrictions (other than the no guest policy) that were a problem? Now that we are past the dark days of no golf, the question is whether AZ was right and the rest of the country wrong. Opinions?

[SL_Solow]

I defy anyone to draw Quintero's routing from memory.

[Jeff Evagues]

I defy anyone to draw Quintero's routing from memory.

All I know is that its about 2 miles from the pro shop to the first tee.

[Kalen Braley]

I'm guessing the hole just above the driving range is #1.

Looks like they abandoned what was to be the original spot for the clubhouse/parking lot

https://www.google.com/maps/place/City+of+Peoria+Quintero+WTP/@33.8519474,-112.4186745,483m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x872ca7d41457589d:0x2eec74b036a83a6a!2sQuintero+Golf+Club!8m2!3d33.8393135!4d-112.4231567!3m4!1s0x872ca7cc92c5e923:0x10db1ca663de09!8m2!3d33.8479384!4d-112.4100468

[Kalen Braley]

Shelly,


Here is my stab at it

[SL_Solow]

Kalen,  I meant from memory, not with a map. I often undertake that exercise after I play a course for the first time.  Cart balling par excellence at Quintero.  I understand that it was a difficult property but there was no rhyme or reason with respect to any connection between the holes as they sequenced.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The pundits , myself included, referred to Quintero as a Florida course dropped into the desert except for the 3 drop shot par3s. . I don't understand the high rating  other than it's somewhat difficult if one plays the wrong tees. It's not worth the ride for me.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,  I meant from memory, not with a map. I often undertake that exercise after I play a course for the first time.  Cart balling par excellence at Quintero.  I understand that it was a difficult property but there was no rhyme or reason with respect to any connection between the holes as they sequenced.

Ahh, my bad.  Did I get it right thou? 

Seems to make a lot more sense if the clubhouse was supposed to be near the range.

P.S.  One of the more interesting routings I've played is Sanctuary, but its on pretty severe terrain.

[A.G._Crockett]

I like your list.  I was supposed to go to Scottsdale last week for a yearly golf trip, but then real life happened.
My only quibble of the ones that I've played would be TPC Stadium, which didn't do much for me.  I'm open to the possibility that I expected too much because of seeing it on TV before playing it, but in most cases when I've done that, the course has exceeded my expectations.  TPC felt to me like just another golf course that could have been anywhere, as opposed to great desert golf.  Just my opinion.

[JWinick]

Sorry for the late reply.   Yes, I got a lot of heat (and from this board) for daring to travel during the pandemic and choosing to leave Chicago and be in Arizona instead.    Almost everyone has since told me I did the right thing.  I also had it back in late January so my risk profile was different.


Anyway, I do think Arizona was smart for leaving outdoor life open.   Only the private clubs were closed and most were open.    There were very modest restrictions, but nothing unreasonable.   One place wouldn't give out "community tees," for example.  Time will tell if they got it right because you need to look at both the caseload and the externalities of lock downs.   I think the looting and social unrest was exacerbated by the lock downs.   It was frankly a violation in most cases of your first amendment right to free assemble, as well as the federal government's supremacy of interstate commerce.   Having said that, I supported them until the curve was flattened.   

All,


After spending two months in Arizona and playing a bunch of courses, here are my rankings.   I did not get to play many private clubs as they were not allowing guests.   I played about 35 rounds in 60 days and played many of these courses more than once.   



We Ko Pa (Saguaro)
We Ko Pa (Cholla)
TPC Scottsdale (Stadium)
Talking Stick (O'odham)
Grayhawk (Raptor)
Seven canyons
Papago
Mesa country club
Quintero
Grayhawk (Talon)
Boulders (south)
Talking Stick (Piipaash)
Octavio
Gainey Ranch
Phoenician
Troon north (monument)
Troon north (Pinnacle)
Lookout mountain

Sounds like the plan to head to AZ during the crisis paid off for you. More golf available there than any other part of the US during that time. Did you encounter any Covid restrictions (other than the no guest policy) that were a problem? Now that we are past the dark days of no golf, the question is whether AZ was right and the rest of the country wrong. Opinions?

[JWinick]

I mean its not joke.  I ran out of balls on the front nine and had to go back to my car to re-load and it must have taken 20 minutes.   

I defy anyone to draw Quintero's routing from memory.

All I know is that its about 2 miles from the pro shop to the first tee.

[JWinick]

There isn't much great desert golf.  Its by definition contrived and unnatural.    But, you have great weather and great conditioned so I had a blast!

I like your list.  I was supposed to go to Scottsdale last week for a yearly golf trip, but then real life happened.
My only quibble of the ones that I've played would be TPC Stadium, which didn't do much for me.  I'm open to the possibility that I expected too much because of seeing it on TV before playing it, but in most cases when I've done that, the course has exceeded my expectations.  TPC felt to me like just another golf course that could have been anywhere, as opposed to great desert golf.  Just my opinion.

[Kalen Braley]

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/11/21286431/coronavirus-arizona-covid-19-cases-deaths-navajo-nation

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jon played all public courses with the  exception of Seven Canyons in Sedona and that's easily accessible and Mesa.  The only public courses on Jon's list are Quintero & Troon North . The first 5 on GD's list are in the Top 100 in US.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/arizona-best-in-state-rankings


Golfweek list of AZ Privates:


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/12/23/golfweeks-best-2019-private-courses-state-by-state/


Golfweek list of the best public:


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/12/24/golfweeks-best-2019-top-rated-course-by-state/3/

[JWinick]

Steve,


I did play Gainey Ranch, which is a Clubcorp course.    I would ordinarily be able to get on at least some of the best privates, but no one was allowing any guest play at all and I heard they were just starting to.   I hope to get out and see some of them next January.


Best,
Jon

Jon played all public courses with the  exception of Seven Canyons in Sedona and that's easily accessible and Mesa.  The only public courses on Jon's list are Quintero & Troon North . The first 5 on GD's list are in the Top 100 in US.


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/arizona-best-in-state-rankings

Golfweek list of AZ Privates:


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/12/23/golfweeks-best-2019-private-courses-state-by-state/


Golfweek list of the best public:


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2019/12/24/golfweeks-best-2019-top-rated-course-by-state/3/

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Gainey Ranch & Boulders are resort courses with some public access in the summer.