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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2020, 04:21:07 PM »
If its all on one course, i'm guessing Sheep Ranch wins in a runaway...


Much as I like the look of Sheep Ranch, I’ll stick with Royal Ashdown Forest for the moment...

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2020, 05:30:02 PM »
If its all on one course, i'm guessing Sheep Ranch wins in a runaway...
Much as I like the look of Sheep Ranch, I’ll stick with Royal Ashdown Forest for the moment...
We need to get you to Minchinhampton Old, Welshpool and Kington. Maybe Church Stretton and a couple of others in its general area too.
Atb

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2020, 06:57:28 PM »
If its all on one course, i'm guessing Sheep Ranch wins in a runaway...
Much as I like the look of Sheep Ranch, I’ll stick with Royal Ashdown Forest for the moment...
We need to get you to Minchinhampton Old, Welshpool and Kington. Maybe Church Stretton and a couple of others in its general area too.
Atb

Yes Kalen, it's time to see if you can get into the Buda fray this year, and let others experience The Sandman.

NOTE: Kalen earned that name for being unable to escape a bunker. Seems this Buda would be ideal for him.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 07:00:14 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2020, 09:59:59 PM »
If its all on one course, i'm guessing Sheep Ranch wins in a runaway...


Much as I like the look of Sheep Ranch, I’ll stick with Royal Ashdown Forest for the moment...


It's been a long time since I've been to Ashdown Forest.  Right now, Arrowtown would be my favorite of the bunkerless courses I have seen.

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2020, 10:00:25 PM »

  • Deal (although looking at an aerial, it appears there’s a bunker to the left?)


Yes - you're right - it's about 220 off the normal back tee, just left of the fairway. It's quite a long way away from the usual line of play unless you're laying up way back.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2020, 11:04:39 PM »
Just back from a round this afternoon at quirky, old-school, par-68 Lincoln Park in San Francisco. Several uphill, 275-yard par 4's, three 200+ yard par-3's and plenty of spectacular views of one of America's most scenic cities. 

Holes 9, 10 & 11 are all par-4's and are all bunkerless. #11 is quite a good hole.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2020, 02:12:56 AM »

Just back from a round this afternoon at quirky, old-school, par-68 Lincoln Park in San Francisco. Several uphill, 275-yard par 4's, three 200+ yard par-3's and plenty of spectacular views of one of America's most scenic cities. 

Holes 9, 10 & 11 are all par-4's and are all bunkerless. #11 is quite a good hole.


11 is a great hole! Thanks for the reminder. I really like #11 at Orinda but either would have been justifiable.


9 Cypress Point (if not accepted by the judges then 9 on St Andrews New Course)


On 9 at Cypress, front left (and short right) are both raked, so no luck there.


I've had a hard time with my own exercise. It's become a question of "Can I think of a bunkerless #X?" as opposed to "What is the best bunkerless #X?" It's totally eye-opening to realize how crazy dependent most courses/holes/architects are on bunkering. Here's what I've managed so far amongst courses I've played. I would say about half are really excellent holes, and the other half are the only ones I could think of for that hole number.


  • Orinda
  • The Bridges (San Ramon)
  • Santa Ana
  • Austin Country Club
  • Presidio
  • PGA West Stadium
  • Inverness
  • Karsten Creek
  • Lincoln Park
  • Dragonfly
  • Orinda
  • Orinda
  • Charlotte Country Club
  • New South Wales
  • Winchester
  • Carolina Golf Club
  • Winged Foot East
  • Wilshire Country Club
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 01:16:49 PM by Matt_Cohn »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2020, 12:27:03 PM »
If its all on one course, i'm guessing Sheep Ranch wins in a runaway...

Sorry Kalen,

Do the flyover on Bandon's website. You will see that Sheep Ranch is not bunkerless. In fact, it has some very serious looking bunkers.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2020, 01:43:06 PM »
Here is the GB&I course I came up with.  I tried to have a few 5s, some longish tough 4s, some short 4s and at least four 3s. 

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Aberdovey 3

4. Rye 4

5. Alnmouth Village (beat out two magnificent par 3s at Sacred 9 and Lahinch due to a few factors: 1) Lovely location, 2) a par 3 didn't fit as well at this part of the round and 3) AV is a more elastic hole

6. Painswick 3 (tough to pass on Deal and Ballybunion Old!)

7. Island 4  Silloth 4

8. Brancaster 5 (not my favourite hole, but it is unusual and I need another 5)

9. Castlerock Bann 3

10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee) St Enodoc 4 (not my favourite hole, but every course needs an awkward hole or two)

11. Ballybunion Old 4

12. Bude & N Cornwall 4 (very difficult to leave off Kington)

13. Kington 4 (I like the greensite a ton and didn't want another 5 so Silloth didn't make the cut)

14. Dornoch 4 (I like Baltray's short 4, but I needed a bit more meat)

15. Harlech 4

16. Aberdovey 4 (very hard to leave off Calamity, but again, I didn't want back to back 3s...besides...3 & 16 at Aberdovey have to come as a pair!)

17. Welshpool 3

18. Kington 4

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 03:16:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2020, 01:55:31 PM »
Here is the GB&I course I came up with.  I tried to have a few 5s, some longish tough 4s, some short 4s and at least four 3s. 

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Aberdovey 3

4. Rye 4

5. Alnmouth Village (beat out two magnificent par 3s at Sacred 9 and Lahinch due to a few factors: 1) Lovely location, 2) a par 3 didn't fit as well at this part of the round and 3) AV is a more elastic hole

6. Painswick 3 (tough to pass on Deal Ballybunion Old!)

7. Island 4

8. Brancaster 5 (tough competitors, but I need another 5)

9. Castlerock Bann 3

10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)

11. Ballybunion Old 4

12. Bude & N Cornwall 4 (very difficult to leave off Kington)

13. Kington 4 (I like the greensite a ton and didn't want another 5 so Silloth didn't make the cut)

14. Dornoch 4 (I like Baltray's short 4, but I needed a bit more meat)

15. Harlech 4

16. Aberdovey 4 (very hard to leave off Calamity, but again, I didn't want back to back 3s...besides...3 & 16 at Aberdovey have to come as a pair!)

17. Welshpool 3

18. Kington 4

Ciao

I wondered how long it would take for you to settle on 2 at Perranporth.

Also, we all knew Kington 18 would finish your list.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2020, 01:59:58 PM »
Here is the GB&I course I came up with.  I tried to have a few 5s, some longish tough 4s, some short 4s and at least four 3s. 

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Aberdovey 3

4. Rye 4

5. Alnmouth Village (beat out two magnificent par 3s at Sacred 9 and Lahinch due to a few factors: 1) Lovely location, 2) a par 3 didn't fit as well at this part of the round and 3) AV is a more elastic hole

6. Painswick 3 (tough to pass on Deal Ballybunion Old!)

7. Island 4

8. Brancaster 5 (tough competitors, but I need another 5)

9. Castlerock Bann 3

10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)

11. Ballybunion Old 4

12. Bude & N Cornwall 4 (very difficult to leave off Kington)

13. Kington 4 (I like the greensite a ton and didn't want another 5 so Silloth didn't make the cut)

14. Dornoch 4 (I like Baltray's short 4, but I needed a bit more meat)

15. Harlech 4

16. Aberdovey 4 (very hard to leave off Calamity, but again, I didn't want back to back 3s...besides...3 & 16 at Aberdovey have to come as a pair!)

17. Welshpool 3

18. Kington 4

Ciao

Also, we all knew Kington 18 would finish your list.


Kington was never in doubt  8)


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2020, 02:00:57 PM »
Here is the GB&I course I came up with.  I tried to have a few 5s, some longish tough 4s, some short 4s and at least four 3s. 

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Aberdovey 3

4. Rye 4

5. Alnmouth Village (beat out two magnificent par 3s at Sacred 9 and Lahinch due to a few factors: 1) Lovely location, 2) a par 3 didn't fit as well at this part of the round and 3) AV is a more elastic hole

6. Painswick 3 (tough to pass on Deal Ballybunion Old!)

7. Island 4

8. Brancaster 5 (tough competitors, but I need another 5)

9. Castlerock Bann 3

10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)

11. Ballybunion Old 4

12. Bude & N Cornwall 4 (very difficult to leave off Kington)

13. Kington 4 (I like the greensite a ton and didn't want another 5 so Silloth didn't make the cut)

14. Dornoch 4 (I like Baltray's short 4, but I needed a bit more meat)

15. Harlech 4

16. Aberdovey 4 (very hard to leave off Calamity, but again, I didn't want back to back 3s...besides...3 & 16 at Aberdovey have to come as a pair!)

17. Welshpool 3

18. Kington 4

Ciao


Unfortunately you will need to remove Island 7 as that hole no longer exists. Suggest you replace it with Carne Kilmore 7.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2020, 02:08:04 PM »
Here is the GB&I course I came up with.  I tried to have a few 5s, some longish tough 4s, some short 4s and at least four 3s. 

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Aberdovey 3

4. Rye 4

5. Alnmouth Village (beat out two magnificent par 3s at Sacred 9 and Lahinch due to a few factors: 1) Lovely location, 2) a par 3 didn't fit as well at this part of the round and 3) AV is a more elastic hole

6. Painswick 3 (tough to pass on Deal Ballybunion Old!)

7. Island 4

8. Brancaster 5 (tough competitors, but I need another 5)

9. Castlerock Bann 3

10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)

11. Ballybunion Old 4

12. Bude & N Cornwall 4 (very difficult to leave off Kington)

13. Kington 4 (I like the greensite a ton and didn't want another 5 so Silloth didn't make the cut)

14. Dornoch 4 (I like Baltray's short 4, but I needed a bit more meat)

15. Harlech 4

16. Aberdovey 4 (very hard to leave off Calamity, but again, I didn't want back to back 3s...besides...3 & 16 at Aberdovey have to come as a pair!)

17. Welshpool 3

18. Kington 4

Ciao

Unfortunately you will need to remove Island 7 as that hole no longer exists. Suggest you replace it with Carne Kilmore 7.

Its already gone  :'(

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2020, 02:46:12 PM »
Strange how few holes from bunkerless courses are getting mentioned.  Is this because they aren't good enough or because they lose their identity as bunkerless holes in courses where they are just one of 18 bunkerless holes?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2020, 03:27:34 PM »
Strange how few holes from bunkerless courses are getting mentioned.  Is this because they aren't good enough or because they lose their identity as bunkerless holes in courses where they are just one of 18 bunkerless holes?

I think I used holes from three of five bunkerless courses I played. In different circumstances all five could have been used.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tal Oz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2020, 03:35:04 PM »
I had started a bunkerless par 3s thread here last year. Lots of examples: https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67468.msg1612722.html#msg1612722

Winged Foot East 17 has to be a lock, what a fantastic hole.

I had completely forgotten about Wilshire's 18th because I probably associate Wilshire with tons of bunkers, but it is indeed the only bunkerless hole on the course and a great finishing hole.

Keith Durrant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2020, 06:34:13 PM »

A few GB&I candidates:


1 Hoylake
7 Carlow
8 Formby
9 Liphook
15 Royal Guernsey
16 Pulborough

18 TOC

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2020, 05:57:11 PM »
The GB&I folks are having a much easier time with this exercise!

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2020, 12:19:27 AM »
Kingsley #12 may be the best hole on the course.  I can't think of where you would place a bunker on that hole without making it worse.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2020, 01:22:29 AM »
I have gone through the links courses I have played in GB&I, and come up with these bunkerless holes.
1 St. Enodoc, Carne, Portsalon, Portstewart, Valley, Bushfoot. Brora, Burnham and Berrow, Channel
2 Perranporth, Enniscrone, Bushfoot, Channel
3 St. Enodoc, Saunton East, Carne, Enniscrone, County Louth, Channel
4 Tenby, Dunfanaghy, Rosses Point, Enniscrone, Valley, County Louth, Fortrose and Rosemarkie, Bernham and Berrow
5 Perranporth, Dunganaghy, Portstewart, Valley, Fortrose and Rosemarkie, Channel
6 Saunton East?, Carne, Portsalon, Rosapenna OT, Dunfanaghy, Dunluce, Valley, New
7 Perranporth, Saunton West, Carne, Narin and Portnoo, Dunfanaghy, Donegal, Portstewart, Valley, Tarbat, Golspie, Channel
8 Saunton East?, Dunfanaghy, Castlerock, Valley, Jubilee, Channel
9 Perranporth, Castlerock, Tarbat, New, Channel (Does it count? It has a grass bunker!)
10 St. Enodoc, Perranporth, Narin and Portnoo, Castlerock, Dunluce, The Castle, Jubilee, Narin and Portnoo
11 North West, Dunfanaghy, Enniscrone
12 Bude and North Cornwall, Perranporth, Carne, Dunfanaghy, Enniscrone, Burnham and Berrow
13 Perranporth
14 Perranporth Braid's Best, Carne, Enniscrone, County Louth, Royal Dornoch, The Castle, Eden, Burnham and Berrow
15 Enniscrone
16 Bude and North Cornwall, Portsalon, Enniscrone, Dunluce
17 Bude and North Cornwall, Narin and Portnoo, County Sligo, Enniscrone, Portstewart
18 Perranporth, Carne

Some preliminary observations. By the time you get to the seventh hole you can relax and not build a bunker. By the time you get to the 15th hole, you had better build a bunker, or have a terrible logo. ;)

If you are in Fife, there are so many flush golfers around you can build as many bunkers as you would like. ;)

I will try to pick some to make my eclectic 18, but if I leave some out, i may need some help from other posters.
EDIT: I went ahead and picked the rest since no one offered any input. :TIDE
As I have engaged in the infamous hit and run on a tight schedule, thereby having trouble recalling much about many of these holes. For example, I was so intent on downing Bill Thomas in our singles match at Enniscrone, my recollection of the course is primarily long walks green to tee in hollows on the holes in the dunes, and several somewhat flat holes outside the dunes. However, the flyovers on their website made me realize I think I would like the place much more if I were to give it another go. Enniscrone will make my list as they are the only course to have the cajones to have no bunkers on the 15th hole.

1. Brora 4

2. Perranporth 5

3. Enniscrone 3


4. Tenby 4

5. Fortrose and Rosemarkie 4 The hole i intended to use was the 4th. Placed it at 5 by mistake. Have to find an altenative.
5. Portstewart Strand 4

6. Portsalon 4


7. Tarbat, the new longer version 3

8. Dunfanaghy 4, I forgot I played at Burnham and Berrow. My favorite 8th hole is now the eighth on the Channel course. This may require quite a bit of reshuffling if I choose the Channel hole.
8. Portrush Valley 5

9. Castlerock 3

Front nine par 34 35
10. St. Enodoc 5 4 I was confident this was a par 5 when I played it. Learned from Sean's 18 that it is now a 4. More reshuffling needed.

11. Narin and Portnoo 5 Since Hanse dropped a par 3 earlier in the course, this hole turns out to be #10, so more adjustment necessary.
11. North West 4
12. Bude and North Cornwall 4
13. Perranporth 4
14. Royal Dornoch 4
15. Enniscrone 4


16. Dunluce 3
17. County Sligo 4
18. Carne 5
Back nine par 38 37 36

« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 12:44:53 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2020, 01:25:25 AM »
The GB&I folks are having a much easier time with this exercise!

You can have great holes in the links land without building bunkers.

Besides, most of the rest of my golf is around home where we have narrow corridors between trees. Holes like that can't compete.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2020, 08:34:48 AM »
Kingsley #12 may be the best hole on the course.  I can't think of where you would place a bunker on that hole without making it worse.



Kingsley #12 from tee 852




Kingsley #12 from tee zoomed 853




Kingsley #12 from front tee 854




Kingsley #12  approach 855

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2020, 04:44:23 PM »
...
10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)
...

Unless I am mistaken, Google Earth is showing a bunker off the front left of the green.
The website score card says Valley 10 is a par 4, so I don't understand the comment "par 4 tee".
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2020, 05:03:54 PM »
...
10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)
...

Unless I am mistaken, Google Earth is showing a bunker off the front left of the green.
The website score card says Valley 10 is a par 4, so I don't understand the comment "par 4 tee".


Are the two of you talking about pre and post Ebert re-routing? Different hole numbers...

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Random exercise: eclectic bunkerless 18
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2020, 05:35:07 PM »
...
10. Portrush Valley (par 4 tee)
...

Unless I am mistaken, Google Earth is showing a bunker off the front left of the green.
The website score card says Valley 10 is a par 4, so I don't understand the comment "par 4 tee".

Are the two of you talking about pre and post Ebert re-routing? Different hole numbers...

Ally

You are right.  I think the old 10th is now the 8th. They also eliminated the par 5 tee. I guess St Enodoc takes the slot or I might go back and add a short hole.


Ciao
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 05:36:49 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing