Are there more really good amateurs than there were 40 years ago?

[Tommy Williamsen]

When I was in my thirties I played competitive golf. I would play in the MD Amateur, the MD Open, and the Mid-Atlantic Open. I could qualify for match play in the Amateur by shooting something in the high 70's. If I shot 77-78 I could make the cut in the opens. Today I would be home for the weekend with those scores. Those scores might not even qualify for the championship flight in the club championship.

It just seems there are a lot of excellent players out there.

[Lou_Duran]

No comparison.  Competitive golf at every level is light years ahead of my time.  More practice and competitive opportunities, better knowledge, probably more concentration or specialization on a single sport.  Even at the club level, there are many more really good players who can break par with regularity.

[jeffwarne]

No comparison.  Competitive golf at every level is light years ahead of my time.  More practice and competitive opportunities, better knowledge, probably more concentration or specialization on a single sport.  Even at the club level, there are many more really good players who can break par with regularity.

+1
Better technique, better teaching, better fitting equipment allowing young kids to develop speed early
More athletes exposed to golf as kids (Tiger)
and remember equipment has allowed older players to stay competitive longer so every year the depth of talent gets deeper as every year more younger players throw that hat in the ring, yet fewer older ones drop out.

[Tom_Doak]

It got easier when you don't have to hit the sweet spot consistently to compete!

[John Kavanaugh]

I just became a +1 again from the members tees for the first time in 40 years. Nothing must have changed

[Tommy Williamsen]

It got easier when you don't have to hit the sweet spot consistently to compete!

I was playing MacGregor Tourney Persimmon woods and Haig Ultra irons. Even carried a one iron!!
It's a different world but I am still not any better.

[John Kavanaugh]

Cutting down the trees has really helped. No one has to work the ball. Up, down or sideways.

[MCirba]

By and large, and not every day (today was a very ugly front nine), I'm better now at almost age 62 than at any time since I started playing a week before my 13th birthday. 


Short game and putting I was better then but equipment and better conditioning has made a huge difference in distance, accuracy, distance control, and consistency.

[V. Kmetz]

I can't think of many sports/games/athletics wherein there aren't more top levels of more people in toto...maybe track and field, as a PED era has interrupted and blurred older marks...maybe tennis (but that could be I don't follow it as I did 40 years ago)


As to golf amateurs ....as others have said...more gross population of participants...starting younger...playing longer...more competitions to participate in...better technology and equipment performance... there's a lot to pick from as to the truth and the "why" of it.

[JESII]

It got easier when you don't have to hit the sweet spot consistently to compete!

I’ve heard this for several years but am curious if you’ll be the first to offer supporting evidence.

[Thomas Dai]

Not convinced that players as individuals have got better or have more talent, more opportunities maybe. Not convinced either that the number of better players has increased although players at higher echelons of the game are probably fitter and more athletic these days. Not sure fitness and athleticism help with course management, the short game and putting though. They probably do help however, cope with a 5-hr round instead of a 3 hr one!
And of course the game has got easier, except maybe to an extent for low ball flight players. Not just clubs and balls, but course conditioning, clothing (esp bad weather), practice facilities etc. And then we come to the softening of the rules and the easing of handicapping.
atb

[Ben Stephens]

The club these days take a lot of really skilled shot making out of the game. For me out of the current crop Tiger has the most shots in his armoury and the ability to manufacture those shots. For me this is sadly lacking as lots of top amateurs now can bomb it down the fairway yet struggle to tackle shots from really difficult positions etc.

[Jeff Schley]

Just watched the Hogan vs. Snead SWWoG and the biggest drive of the day was a Snead drive with a 250 yard carry over a bunker which ended up 275 to Hogan's 250.


One day while teaching HS in So Cal around 2003-4 (not sure which year) I and another teacher headed out to the SCGA Members Club in Murrieta, CA for an afternoon round. There was a HS match going off around 3 so we had to hurry to get off before the match. I was on the green of the short par 4 on the back 9 which plays about 320 from the whites and 340 from the blues (where the hs kids played). You could get home when the course was playing fast and hard provided the wind wasn't in your face as it often was. This day had a pretty stiff 10-15 mph breeze in your face. I had just addressed a putt from about 10 foot for birdie when just behind me I heard a thump. I was startled and looked behind me and saw a ball with a large ball mark. I was ticked and swung my head around to look into the fairway and didn't see any groups.  I looked back on the tee and there were some HS players. I was thinking WTF, no way! We putted out and went to the next tee a par 3 in the opposite direction and a HS kid who was very small with a bag on his back comes walking close to the water pond that separated that hole from the par 3 and said, "Sorry, I didn't think I could get there."

That kid was Rickie Fowler I later learned and was a freshman at Murrieta Valley HS.


I don't like that distance and speed is the overriding factor to be considered good, but it has been getting that way more and more the last 20 years.

[Mark Pearce]

I don't like that distance and speed is the overriding factor to be considered good, but it has been getting that way more and more the last 20 years.

Longer than that, surely?  Distance has always been a huge advantage.  It's just that distance improvements have exploded over a period slightly longer than your 20 years.

[John Kavanaugh]

The thing that is so different today is that scratch and 14 handicaps hit the ball about the same distance. 40 years ago only the good golfers hit the ball far.

[Jeff Schley]

I don't like that distance and speed is the overriding factor to be considered good, but it has been getting that way more and more the last 20 years.

Longer than that, surely?  Distance has always been a huge advantage.  It's just that distance improvements have exploded over a period slightly longer than your 20 years.

Put whatever length you would like Mark. We talk ad nauseam about how driving distances have made courses obsolete without adding length, so I think that period in particular has necessitated such alterations. The 460cc head limitation along with prov1 ball introduction in the early 2000's I think signals the explosion.

[Michael Wolf]

If you want to take this question back farther than 40 years, a Mr. Charles Sands advanced to the finals of the 1895 US Amateur despite having only taken up the game 3 MONTHS earlier!


(He lost in the final 12&11 to C.B. Macdonald)

[Mark Pearce]

Put whatever length you would like Mark. We talk ad nauseam about how driving distances have made courses obsolete without adding length, so I think that period in particular has necessitated such alterations. The 460cc head limitation along with prov1 ball introduction in the early 2000's I think signals the explosion.

But my point is that being longer has always been an advantage.

[A.G._Crockett]

To the original question, the anstwer is a huge and unqualified "Yes!", and not by a little bit.  There are far, far more competitive amateurs at EVERY age than there were 30 years ago, and it starts from the ground up with junior golf.  There are junior golf "tours" all over the country, with multiple ones in many states.  High school golf is deeper and more competitive than it was 30 years ago, as is college golf.  There is simply no comparison to 30 years ago, and even less of a comparison as you go back even farther.  It ain't even close.
I won't get into a debate about equipment, but the changes had really started BEFORE the ProV1 generation and the 460cc driver era.  The scores that would win high school state championships in the 80's weren't even close just a few years later because of the depth that teams had. 

The golf boom starts with the baby boomers beginning to play in huge numbers, and their kids are the ones that provided the depth of good amateurs that we see today.  More clubs sprang up, and that meant more junior programs, and so on.

[Jeff Schley]

Put whatever length you would like Mark. We talk ad nauseam about how driving distances have made courses obsolete without adding length, so I think that period in particular has necessitated such alterations. The 460cc head limitation along with prov1 ball introduction in the early 2000's I think signals the explosion.

But my point is that being longer has always been an advantage.

Agreed.

[Jon Wiggett]

The equipment has levelled up the game meaning many lesser talented players can now shoot low scores. I have played with quite a few 1 or 2 handicappers under the age of 30 who basically only have a very limited range of shots in the bag. Put a wooden head with steel shaft and bladed irons in their hands and they would struggle to break 80.

[Adrian_Stiff]

The Old 4 handicap back in 1980 is the same as scratch in 2020.

[Ben Stephens]

I suspect the new handicap system we will be using based on the USGA version there will be more scratch golfers in the UK

Remember a good friend of mine was a member of Port Royal in Bermuda and did not play that much golf compared to his home in NI and was playing off scratch despite his game was a bit rusty.

[John Kavanaugh]

The Old 4 handicap back in 1980 is the same as scratch in 2020.

Now that I believe!!!

[Thomas Dai]

The Old 4 handicap back in 1980 is the same as scratch in 2020.

Agree.
atb