Ivy League’s Brown University cuts men’s and women’s golf teams

[Jeff Schley]

As Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships, this isn't a huge money savings nor done for Title IX reasons. To be fair to Brown Uni, these were only 2 of the 11 that were dropped. Won't be the last university to cut, just one of the first to announce as universities are feeling the pinch from lost revenue in several areas.

Men’s and women’s fencing, women’s skiing, men’s and women’s squash, women’s equestrian, men’s indoor track and field, men’s outdoor track and field and men’s cross country will all transition to club status, along with the golf teams. Women’s sailing and coed sailing will transition from club to varsity status.

This is far from the first.  East Carolina cut several sports a couple of weeks ago, including men's tennis.  Appalachian State cut men's tennis, men's soccer, and indoor track this past week.  Furman has cut several sports, most notably baseball, which Furman has been playing since 1891.  There is going to a LOT of this going forward, and if there is even one season of poor football attendance and related giving, there will be dominoes falling all over the country.As to endowments and day-to-day athletic spending, I wouldn't necessarily conflate the two.  The conditions on endowment spending are pretty restrictive, and often limit dollars to capital improvements and strictly academic pursuits, including research and faculty chairs.  I would be surprised if many endowments around the country were able to be used to buy golf balls or pay coaches.
And fwiw, as bad as things might get in college athletics, high schools could be far worse.  Again, a failure in football gates for a lot of schools will be a disaster throughout the athletic program, especially with a lot the normal avenues for sport specific fund raising closed.

Sports have been cut other than golf, but this is the first golf program I'm aware of during the response to the pandemic. Again it won't be the last.
Endowments at private schools go towards many specific "restricted gifts", which are intended for XYZ purpose from the donor that aligns with a universities priorities.  Public schools have a great amount of unrestricted donations, but less overall support.
I'm working on a company position for endowment support right now coincidentally and four things are impacting universities in terms of their endowments right now.

• The new tax code which doubles the standard exemption takes out about 15-20 million taxpayers from itemizing. As almost all universities are set up as non-profits, donations to them are tax deductible. While people are paying less in tax, the incentive to give to universities (or other non profits) is diminished from a financial standpoint.
• The IRS also has implemented a 1.4% excise tax on capital gains from the largest endowments, which only affects 25-35 universities, but this eats away at their endowment for the first time.
• Their own donors have been hit financially in this most recent downturn, so the very people who are supposed to replenish their endowment coffers are negatively impacted.
• The state funding has been dwindling for the budget year over year since 2008 by some 16% collectively and some states as much as 30%. Thus putting more pressure on their alternative funding sources, endowments being one.

It is a tough road to hoe as tuition increases have creeped up, although the last 5-8 years haven't been crazy as the previous 10-15 years. However, fair to say they haven't been decreasing. A state has to balance it's budget, which is why Illinois and other states continually raid their pension funds and tap government issued bonds until they hit junk status. Real problems are ahead for public universities and we see consolidation as a real solution. Not in a bad way, but Darwinian where the strong will survive.

BTW I would argue private universities, especially the elites will use this to further distance themselves in almost all metrics. The other demographic that will be under severe pressure are the small private liberal arts colleges. The tuition of $40-60k a year just isn't appealing in downturns and alternatives will become more of a consideration.

The winner and IMO one of the jewels in the US is the community/junior college system. This is a neglected asset, which should and most likely will be utilized more to save money for students while providing the first 2 years of an undergraduate degree. In addition many provide certificate programs for professional jobs in the health care and other sectors.  The negative stigma or connotation from a junior or community college has been gone for a while, but now I think its status will rise as just being a smart consumer.

Athletics in "minor sports" basically everything but football/basketball will continue to be targeted as cost centers. Men sports moreso than female sports will be targeted, as Title IX is a real consideration and equalizer since football has so many athletes to have to balance out.

We shall see, but the above are real considerations. Of course some just discount reality and disruptive predictions as Johnny Carson's Carnac the Magnificent predictions.

[John Blain]

As Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships, this isn't a huge money savings nor done for Title IX reasons. To be fair to Brown Uni, these were only 2 of the 11 that were dropped. Won't be the last university to cut, just one of the first to announce as universities are feeling the pinch from lost revenue in several areas.

Men’s and women’s fencing, women’s skiing, men’s and women’s squash, women’s equestrian, men’s indoor track and field, men’s outdoor track and field and men’s cross country will all transition to club status, along with the golf teams. Women’s sailing and coed sailing will transition from club to varsity status.

This is far from the first.  East Carolina cut several sports a couple of weeks ago, including men's tennis.  Appalachian State cut men's tennis, men's soccer, and indoor track this past week.  Furman has cut several sports, most notably baseball, which Furman has been playing since 1891.  There is going to a LOT of this going forward, and if there is even one season of poor football attendance aznd related giving, there will be dominoes falling all over the country.
As to endowments and day-to-day athletic spending, I wouldn't necessarily conflate the two.  The conditions on endowment spending are pretty restrictive, and often limit dollars to capital improvements and strictly academic pursuits, including research and faculty chairs.  I would be surprised if many endowments around the country were able to be used to buy golf balls or pay coaches.
And fwiw, as bad as things might get in college athletics, high schools could be far worse.  Again, a failure in football gates for a lot of schools will be a disaster throughout the athletic program, especially with a lot the normal avenues for sport specific fund raising closed.

Brown ain't East Carolina...
You cut golf,squash, fencing, equestrian I'm pretty sure you've lost a lot of students (at least as recruits)who actually pay full freight.
Many kids are invited to "walk on" at elite schools BECAUSE they pay full freight

Well since the Ivies don't give athletic scholarships you could argue that everyone is a walk-on. Trust me when I tell you that the Ivies or any of these other elite schools are not having trouble finding kids who pay full freight. I live in a college town in upstate NY where the cost all in is $72k per year and these kids drive Range Rovers. They don't need kids from these sports to keep the lights on, trust me. 

[Tim Leahy]

Univ's are getting lazy. How hard would it be to get a private sponsor for the golf teams. Titleist, Callaway, or many others. Little League teams have been using sponsors for expenses since I was a kid. Remember Manny's Bail Bonds from Bad News Bears! LOL

[John Kavanaugh]

It's always good to put a face on tragic events. What a great group of kids. I hope the NCAA gives anyone who can transfer fair consideration.


https://brownbears.com/sports/mens-golf/roster
https://brownbears.com/sports/womens-golf/roster

[John Emerson]

Univ's are getting lazy. How hard would it be to get a private sponsor for the golf teams. Titleist, Callaway, or many others. Little League teams have been using sponsors for expenses since I was a kid. Remember Manny's Bail Bonds from Bad News Bears! LOL

Most schools have a contract with one of the shoe companies like adidas, Nike, UA etc.  This typically covers all apparel for all sports.  If they sell it the golf team will get it.  Shoes, hats, polos etc.  Only thing the team has to pay for “out of pocket” is clubs and balls.  I Know for S[size=78%]ure they get large discounts and on those too.[/size]

[John Kavanaugh]

I thought clubs and balls are covered under the new rules.

[A.G._Crockett]

No matter what you guys think, there are lots of expenses to running ANY team, even if there aren't scholarships involved.  Coaches are paid, and travel costs a lot of money.  For a school like Brown, they might be getting clubs and balls and shoes at cost, but they aren't getting them free.
Sports cost a LOT of money, and I think a lot of you would be surprised at the restrictions on schools, public OR private, as to where that money can come from.  I dealt with athletic budgets in big high schools for 40 years, and the money involved is significant and hard to come by in the best of times. 

Here's a simple way of thinking about it.  Football makes money most places, or at least it had better.  Men's basketball makes money some places. Here and there, you find pockets where another sport might break even, but everything else just costs.  You have to pay coaches and trainers, and you have to pay for travel, and in most sports you have to pay for officials, you have to pay for equipment, and on and on.  Scholarships at the college level are only one piece of it, and not necessarily the biggest one.
This fall and next winter, we are going to reduced attendance, less giving, less advertising in programs and on sign boards.  Fund raisers like golf tournaments aren't going to work like they have been in the past.  Revenues are going to be WAY down, and something has to give.  Some places it will be bigger teams, like baseball at Furman or soccer at ECU; some places it will be smaller teams, like tennis at App St. or golf at Brown.  But lots of stuff is going to get scrapped by this time next year, and it probably won't ever come back.

[Jeff Schley]

I dealt with athletic budgets in big high schools for 40 years, and the money involved is significant and hard to come by in the best of times. 

HS Athletic Director?  My dad was as well.

[Jerry Kluger]

I don't think you can compare an Ivy League school with almost any public university.  They don't give athletic scholarships so the athletics are no different from anything else like music or drama, etc. I have a friend whose son was offered a full scholarship to play baseball at Wake Forest but he chose instead to go to Brown and his dad paid the full tuition, etc.  On the other hand my neighbor was an all state basketball player from Ohio and Princeton really wanted him.  They gave him a full scholarship which was supposed to be based upon need and when he got there he decided not to play basketball and they could do nothing about it. I would also think that the college admissions scandal establishes that these schools are in such demand that they can charge whatever they want and people will pay it.

[Tim Martin]

I don't think you can compare an Ivy League school with almost any public university.  They don't give athletic scholarships so the athletics are no different from anything else like music or drama, etc. I have a friend whose son was offered a full scholarship to play baseball at Wake Forest but he chose instead to go to Brown and his dad paid the full tuition, etc.  On the other hand my neighbor was an all state basketball player from Ohio and Princeton really wanted him.  They gave him a full scholarship which was supposed to be based upon need and when he got there he decided not to play basketball and they could do nothing about it. I would also think that the college admissions scandal establishes that these schools are in such demand that they can charge whatever they want and people will pay it.

It kind of boils down to Brown is going to take their ball and go home because their competitive record is terrible. They aren’t looking to save money and will reallocate the budgets from the dropped varsity sports to those that remain.

[A.G._Crockett]

I dealt with athletic budgets in big high schools for 40 years, and the money involved is significant and hard to come by in the best of times. 

HS Athletic Director?  My dad was as well.

I was never the AD; taught and coached for 39 years.  Basketball the whole time, tennis early in my career, golf late in my career, and a little bit of other stuff here and there.
So here's an example of financing issues, though we're talking about HS instead of college.  For basketball, the county paid coaching supplements, bus drivers, gatekeepers and security, and game officials.  EVERYTHING else, uniforms, basketballs, water bottles, towels, tape, and on and on, came out of school funds, which either had to be from gate receipts, privately donated, or raised through things like golf tournaments or Shoot-A-Thons or whatever.  Some of this varies a bit from system to system, but that's the gist of it.  The affiliation with a shoe company came along very late in my career, and it helped for sure, but that stuff wasn't free; it just had a far better price, plus the company threw in some shoes and warmups for the coaches as part of the deal.
Our athletic program budget was so tied to football gates that a season with bad weather on Friday nights, or a season where we didn't play our archrivals as home games, made things really difficult, and that was in a BIG metro system in a very affluent area. 

Colleges aren't that different, especially if you get beyond the handful of teams that you see on TV year round in football and basketball.  Everything else is a financial black hole.  We all see the numbers of what Nike is paying coaches at the big time schools, but that has nothing to do with most sports even at those schools, and nothing to do with most schools.  The vast majority of college athletic programs have more in common with high schools than with Alabama or Duke or UNC or Clemson or Kentucky. 

One other thing to consider:  Most of the programs that are currently being cut are men's programs, and I think in many cases schools have wanted to cut men's teams for some time, but colleges are doing this NOW because there is sort of a PR window open because of the pandemic.  In addition to reducing their budgets, they are dealing with Title IX disparities.  (I have no idea how Title IX applies to Brown, but I wouldn't assume that it doesn't apply if Brown is taking any federal money at all for any part of university operations.)
If there is another wave of program shutdowns, it'll come later after college AD's see the outcomes of 2020 football and 2020-21 basketball, plus impacts of the pandemic on giving.  That's where the real crisis will come.

[jeffwarne]

I dealt with athletic budgets in big high schools for 40 years, and the money involved is significant and hard to come by in the best of times. 

HS Athletic Director?  My dad was as well.

I was never the AD; taught and coached for 39 years.  Basketball the whole time, tennis early in my career, golf late in my career, and a little bit of other stuff here and there.
So here's an example of financing issues, though we're talking about HS instead of college.  For basketball, the county paid coaching supplements, bus drivers, gatekeepers and security, and game officials.  EVERYTHING else, uniforms, basketballs, water bottles, towels, tape, and on and on, came out of school funds, which either had to be from gate receipts, privately donated, or raised through things like golf tournaments or Shoot-A-Thons or whatever.  Some of this varies a bit from system to system, but that's the gist of it.  The affiliation with a shoe company came along very late in my career, and it helped for sure, but that stuff wasn't free; it just had a far better price, plus the company threw in some shoes and warmups for the coaches as part of the deal.
Our athletic program budget was so tied to football gates that a season with bad weather on Friday nights, or a season where we didn't play our archrivals as home games, made things really difficult, and that was in a BIG metro system in a very affluent area. 

Colleges aren't that different, especially if you get beyond the handful of teams that you see on TV year round in football and basketball.  Everything else is a financial black hole.  We all see the numbers of what Nike is paying coaches at the big time schools, but that has nothing to do with most sports even at those schools, and nothing to do with most schools.  The vast majority of college athletic programs have more in common with high schools than with Alabama or Duke or UNC or Clemson or Kentucky. 

One other thing to consider:  Most of the programs that are currently being cut are men's programs, and I think in many cases schools have wanted to cut men's teams for some time, but colleges are doing this NOW because there is sort of a PR window open because of the pandemic.  In addition to reducing their budgets, they are dealing with Title IX disparities.  (I have no idea how Title IX applies to Brown, but I wouldn't assume that it doesn't apply if Brown is taking any federal money at all for any part of university operations.)
If there is another wave of program shutdowns, it'll come later after college AD's see the outcomes of 2020 football and 2020-21 basketball, plus impacts of the pandemic on giving.  That's where the real crisis will come.

AG
Agree with everything you wrote.
I'll even go farther and say if I were a student struggling to make ends meet at a non IVY college I would be resentful of all the various funded varsity programs, especially when some colleges have aid/scholarships that nearly goes begging in some girl's sports.
A sport like men's wrestling is often the victim of Title XI.
I know several girls who are rowing in college(at least one on a scholarship) who had never rowed a day in their lives(and weren't athletic in HS). There are more college rowers that there are High School rowers...
this coming from the father of two athletic girls.


But if I were a current at Brown, with a $4.2 million endowment(I realize athletic budgets are seperate)
I'd have a problem with this.
Seems they could've bailed on next year for pandemic reasons and announced that "as of 2022 or 2023" they would not continue program.


Colleges in general were headed for crisis(with rising tuitions and debt), and sports will be one of the casulaties.The pandemic will only accelerate the crisis. How many people after a year or two of online classes will think twice about paying $20-80,000 annually for a "college experience"
I know I'm paying rent for an unused apartment in a college town after paying full tuition for 2 1 /2 months of online classes.


Of course it could be that the club experience at Brown is not much different than the varsity experience, given the weather in Rhode island...

[Colin Sheehan]

My heart breaks for Coach Hughes and his players. I cannot understand why the decision had to be so sudden, especially after they already lost their spring season. Could they not have given the kids one or two years so they could avoid having incoming first years and returning sophomores and juniors without the very program they were recruited? That would have prepared the kids and let some possibly transfer. 


Athletics in the Ivy League and D-3 are very much amateur athletics at their finest. The kids generally pay full tuition (unless they qualify for need-based tuition relief) and academics are the top priority with athletics a clear second priority. There's no mistaking that. And they compete without the results ever making it to ESPN. And in golf, if it weren't for the occasional parent or friend coming out to watch, there is virtually no spectators and yet, the athletes sacrifice and compete their hearts out on behalf of their teammates and out of pride of their school.


While the Brown program may have struggled, the team always had one of the highest gpas in D-1 college golf. More importantly, they produced one after another quality kids who always graduated on time and went on to a variety of successful professional careers, no doubt the kids benefited from and were blessed by their time and experience as a college athlete.

Coach Hughes was a very good mentor to his players, someone who sincerely cared for his kids. A life long Rhode Island-based PGA professional, he was always very patient and kind to his players. He respected their intellect and for graduation, he always gave each kid an interesting book and told them to start compiling their own collection.

It appears Brown's decision was not financial. The squash teams were fully endowed and they, too, were on the chopping block. The Ivy League schools only have so many admissions spots that can be allocated to athletics and with Title IX implications that need to off-set a football team, it appears they would reallocate the money and admissions spots from these 11 sports to the remaining programs. Even with these 11 teams being downgraded, the university will have a relatively high number of varsity programs compared with more D-1 schools outside of the Ivy League. 

[Buck Wolter]

I dealt with athletic budgets in big high schools for 40 years, and the money involved is significant and hard to come by in the best of times. 

HS Athletic Director?  My dad was as well.

I was never the AD; taught and coached for 39 years.  Basketball the whole time, tennis early in my career, golf late in my career, and a little bit of other stuff here and there.
So here's an example of financing issues, though we're talking about HS instead of college.  For basketball, the county paid coaching supplements, bus drivers, gatekeepers and security, and game officials.  EVERYTHING else, uniforms, basketballs, water bottles, towels, tape, and on and on, came out of school funds, which either had to be from gate receipts, privately donated, or raised through things like golf tournaments or Shoot-A-Thons or whatever.  Some of this varies a bit from system to system, but that's the gist of it.  The affiliation with a shoe company came along very late in my career, and it helped for sure, but that stuff wasn't free; it just had a far better price, plus the company threw in some shoes and warmups for the coaches as part of the deal.
Our athletic program budget was so tied to football gates that a season with bad weather on Friday nights, or a season where we didn't play our archrivals as home games, made things really difficult, and that was in a BIG metro system in a very affluent area. 

Colleges aren't that different, especially if you get beyond the handful of teams that you see on TV year round in football and basketball.  Everything else is a financial black hole.  We all see the numbers of what Nike is paying coaches at the big time schools, but that has nothing to do with most sports even at those schools, and nothing to do with most schools.  The vast majority of college athletic programs have more in common with high schools than with Alabama or Duke or UNC or Clemson or Kentucky. 

One other thing to consider:  Most of the programs that are currently being cut are men's programs, and I think in many cases schools have wanted to cut men's teams for some time, but colleges are doing this NOW because there is sort of a PR window open because of the pandemic.  In addition to reducing their budgets, they are dealing with Title IX disparities.  (I have no idea how Title IX applies to Brown, but I wouldn't assume that it doesn't apply if Brown is taking any federal money at all for any part of university operations.)
If there is another wave of program shutdowns, it'll come later after college AD's see the outcomes of 2020 football and 2020-21 basketball, plus impacts of the pandemic on giving.  That's where the real crisis will come.

I know several girls who are rowing in college(at least one on a scholarship) who had never rowed a day in their lives(and weren't athletic in HS). There are more college rowers that there are High School rowers...
this coming from the father of two athletic girls.

We have a family friend who is over 6' tall and was a Freshman at a big 10 school when the coach stopped her in the hall and asked her if she had ever rowed? The answer was no, she went on to almost make the Olympics.


I saw a family on the local range last night, Dad looked like maybe he was a hockey player and Mom looked like she knew about golf, 4 daughters ages 9-3 hitting balls, I thought a smart coach might make an offer soon for the whole group.

[Michael Moore]

We got a long follow-up email from President Paxson today with some interesting tidbits. For instance, I did not know that prior to this, Brown's 38 varsity teams were the third most in the country. I did not hang out with the athletes, and my story of attending one football, one hockey, and one basketball game in four years always gets a chuckle.
 
The school is 53% women, which creates a bizarro Title IX world in which the men's track program, a pillar of the Diversity and Inclusion Action Plan Phase II, did not stand a chance. Will Brown be the one that ditches football and opts out of the Ivy League? A wise man once told me it's the most valuable brand in the world . . .

[A.G._Crockett]

We got a long follow-up email from President Paxson today with some interesting tidbits. For instance, I did not know that prior to this, Brown's 38 varsity teams were the third most in the country. I did not hang out with the athletes, and my story of attending one football, one hockey, and one basketball game in four years always gets a chuckle.
 
The school is 53% women, which creates a bizarro Title IX world in which the men's track program, a pillar of the Diversity and Inclusion Action Plan Phase II, did not stand a chance. Will Brown be the one that ditches football and opts out of the Ivy League? A wise man once told me it's the most valuable brand in the world . . .

38 teams is a lot, for sure; I'd guess the average around the country is more like 20 to 25, with more schools below 20 than above 25.
At the risk of coming across as even more cynical than I am, which is pretty cynical, I'll guess that Brown took advantage of what a retired big-time D1 AD referred to in a conversation we had as "the PR window" of the pandemic, and cut some stuff that they had wanted to cut anyway.

And lest someone try to correct you by saying that Title IX doesn't apply to Brown because its private, if Brown takes ANY federal money at all, then Title IX does apply.  And there are very, very few schools that don't get at least some federal funding.

[Jeff Schley]

Scholarships at the college level are only one piece of it, and not necessarily the biggest one.

AG, a couple things as scholarships are actually a very small part of it. When talking college athletics there are a small percentage of athletes that even get any form of an athletic scholarship.  The rest actually have a net positive on the university as they are actually paying tuition like a normal student (minus any need based funding). I just looked up the figures and here they are. https://www.ncsasports.org/recruiting/how-to-get-recruited/college-divisions

• Division I (scholarship except Ivy League)- 176,000 athletes
• Division II (scholarship) - 118,000 athletes
• Division III (non-scholarship) - 188,000
• NAIA DI scholarship/DII non-scholarship) - 60,000
• Total = 542,000

Now Division I & II as well as NAIA Division I can give athletic scholarships. Of interest is that only 56% of Division I athletes receive any kind of athletic scholarship and 60% for Division II. There are head count sports in Division I only(Men: Football & basketball; Women: basketball, tennis, gymnastics, volleyball) which means anyone on scholarship gets a full scholarship, although you can also have walk-on players as well. All other sports at all levels (except NCAA DIII and NAIA DII and Ivy League) are equivalency sports which means you can give partial scholarships and break them up among multiple athletes.


Below the Division I level, universities look at their athletes as another way to increase enrollment. Sports such as football at the NAIA DI level have football teams with close to 100 players, with over half receiving a "partial scholarship" in many cases of just 10-20%. So these athletes, while on "scholarship" are in essence receiving a small tuition subsidy. The NAIA level are almost all small private schools with very expensive tuitions, so giving them a "partial 10% scholarship" still yields enrollment and perhaps $50k or more still in tuition/fees.

A significant problem with accounting practices at universities (non DI) is that the athletic department doesn't get credit for the tuition/fees paid by their athletes, the university does. So although they are bringing in students and increased revenue, they are seen as a cost center. In truth the incremental cost to add an additional student as a full time student (12 semester hours or more of classes) is very small for the college, the tuition/fees delivers a net positive.

Outside of the most esteemed colleges/universities, most don't reach full enrollment or utilization. So in those cases athletics is a revenue producing positive. In the minor sports (outside of DI) many coaches are only paid a stipend for coaching and aren't full time athletic department employees or work another job at the college/university as their full time job.

With Title IX pressures, there has never been a better time to be a female college athlete. I played baseball at U. of Iowa in the mid 90's and we added a rowing team for women with 20 full scholarships to give, despite not one HS in Iowa having a rowing team. When I coached football at UCLA they added a rowing team while I was there, again despite not one public school having a rowing team in the entire state. In both of these cases the rowing coaches recruited their athletes from the walk on's who were playing other sports. I remember one girl from the track team, who couldn't even swim before trying out, ended up getting a full scholarship just based on her performance in the tryout (with a life preserver on). I have encouraged my own nieces who live in Chicago area to try it and one of them I know would be very good.


FYI here is a comprehensive site with scholarship limits for each sport by division.  http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

[Cliff Hamm]

https://www.wpri.com/target-12/a-sense-of-betrayal-brown-athletes-feel-cheated-after-sports-are-cut/

[Sean_A]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

Division 2.
Athletic Scholarships available, generally not bastions of acadamia (exception Bentley outside Boston)
USC Aiken would be on the extreme opposite end of the scale from Brown-academically and athletically.
Make no mistake though, even/especially schools that don't offer athletic scholarships find "academic scholarships or financial aid" for a recruitable athlete.
Some really good players have come through there-4 players currently on the PGA Tour, and many before.
Home course Palmetto-They have won multiple D-2 National Championships.

[Sean_A]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

Division 2.
Athletic Scholarships available, generally not bastions of acadamia (exception Bentley outside Boston)
USC Aiken would be on the extreme opposite end of the scale from Brown-academically and athletically.
Make no mistake though, even/especially schools that don't offer athletic scholarships find "academic scholarships or financial aid" for a recruitable athlete.
Some really good players have come through there-4 players currently on the PGA Tour, and many before.
Home course Palmetto-They have won multiple D-2 National Championships.

Yes, the kid said they are #5 in the country and could compete with most Div 1 schools.

I agree, Ivy League etc may not call it athletic scholarship, but they find ways to pay for bright jocks.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

Division 2.
Athletic Scholarships available, generally not bastions of acadamia (exception Bentley outside Boston)
USC Aiken would be on the extreme opposite end of the scale from Brown-academically and athletically.
Make no mistake though, even/especially schools that don't offer athletic scholarships find "academic scholarships or financial aid" for a recruitable athlete.
Some really good players have come through there-4 players currently on the PGA Tour, and many before.
Home course Palmetto-They have won multiple D-2 National Championships.

Yes, the kid said they are #5 in the country and could compete with most Div 1 schools.

I agree, Ivy League etc may not call it athletic scholarship, but they find ways to pay for bright jocks.

Ciao

Not just Ivy league, whose endowments find ways for many kids (many that aren't athletes) to receive financial aid, especially D-3 schools, who give no athletic scholarships, but plenty of academic or financial aid packages to athletes.


Many foreign students play sports at D2 schools because grades or poor test scores(or lack of) held them up at D-1 Colleges(or in their case because they recruit heavily overseas-as does Augusta State)

[Buck Wolter]

Some progress -- not golf yet

https://twitter.com/jgault13/status/1270511084995108865?s=20

[Sean_A]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

Division 2.
Athletic Scholarships available, generally not bastions of acadamia (exception Bentley outside Boston)
USC Aiken would be on the extreme opposite end of the scale from Brown-academically and athletically.
Make no mistake though, even/especially schools that don't offer athletic scholarships find "academic scholarships or financial aid" for a recruitable athlete.
Some really good players have come through there-4 players currently on the PGA Tour, and many before.
Home course Palmetto-They have won multiple D-2 National Championships.

Yes, the kid said they are #5 in the country and could compete with most Div 1 schools.

I agree, Ivy League etc may not call it athletic scholarship, but they find ways to pay for bright jocks.

Ciao

Not just Ivy league, whose endowments find ways for many kids (many that aren't athletes) to receive financial aid, especially D-3 schools, who give no athletic scholarships, but plenty of academic or financial aid packages to athletes.


Many foreign students play sports at D2 schools because grades or poor test scores(or lack of) held them up at D-1 Colleges(or in their case because they recruit heavily overseas-as does Augusta State)

To be honest what rankles me is athletic scholarships for foreign students. I am not convinced that is good use of public funds.

Ciao

[Jeff Schley]

Odd story....

Today I happen to see a ball land on the 18th green out of the corner of my eye while waiting to tee off #1. The ball flew over the flag on a downwind shot to a front to back green and held quite nicely. I said the chap must be a very good golfer.  Ends up he plays at S Carolina Aiken.  9 guys, only 3 from US and 6 international.  No walk ons...all have a scholarship to some degree...his was 80% I think he said...which is the most offered.  Less than 3500 students and golf is one of the five men's sports on offer.  I guess it comes down to priorities.  No female team...they have six other sports.

Ciao

Division 2.
Athletic Scholarships available, generally not bastions of acadamia (exception Bentley outside Boston)
USC Aiken would be on the extreme opposite end of the scale from Brown-academically and athletically.
Make no mistake though, even/especially schools that don't offer athletic scholarships find "academic scholarships or financial aid" for a recruitable athlete.
Some really good players have come through there-4 players currently on the PGA Tour, and many before.
Home course Palmetto-They have won multiple D-2 National Championships.

Yes, the kid said they are #5 in the country and could compete with most Div 1 schools.

I agree, Ivy League etc may not call it athletic scholarship, but they find ways to pay for bright jocks.

Ciao

Not just Ivy league, whose endowments find ways for many kids (many that aren't athletes) to receive financial aid, especially D-3 schools, who give no athletic scholarships, but plenty of academic or financial aid packages to athletes.


Many foreign students play sports at D2 schools because grades or poor test scores(or lack of) held them up at D-1 Colleges(or in their case because they recruit heavily overseas-as does Augusta State)

To be honest what rankles me is athletic scholarships for foreign students. I am not convinced that is good use of public funds.

Ciao

Sean for private universities obviously the funds aren't public.
However, for public universities they can and do give athletic scholarships to international student athletes based on athletic merit. They want their teams to be the best they can. Athletic departments at the Division I level are self supporting in the "Power 5" conferences (Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, SEC) with some making substantial profits.  However, most others need a subsidy from the university to operate. 

There are other reasons for athletics other than win championships.  It is part of campus life and gives students activities to support and attend as part of their college experience. It allows alumni to stay connected to attending/watching their alma mater, which in turn gives donation opportunities. The local community also benefits and supports the university's athletics. In some cases the entire state doesn't have any professional sports teams (ex: Nebraska).

I'm biased as I played and coached in college, however I feel it is a vital part of university life that adds much more than it takes. However, I'm also aware that the USA is totally unique in this regard. I know that UK has British Universities & College Sports (BUCS) but is much more club orientated and without the commercialization and scholarships. Actually the USA model doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

Of course the salaries being thrown about for coaches is astronomical and outpaces inflation by many multiples over the last 20 years.

edit: formatting issues