[Marty Bonnar]

A friend of mine, Martin Simpson, was in the vicinity of the Course this morning and took a few quick snaps which he has very graciously agreed for me to share. Thanks, Martin! Course definitely appears to be growing in very nicely.














Looking forward to seeing/playing it when we are allowed.
F.

[Tom_Doak]

The mix of the two styles of bunkers is still weird to me wherever I see it.


I know, it's just esthetics.  But some of those bunkers are really only there for esthetics.

[Adrian_Stiff]

The mix of styles was one of the first things I noticed but I like that. It is happening more and more at UK links courses as they expose areas and just let them go to sand.


Clive Clark had a lot of flair as a golf course architect, he did a lot in the UK back in the 90s, but not heard anything much about him for nearly 25 years.

[Michael Graham]

Marty,


I’m guessing as Fifer you won’t have to pay the £230+ rack rate. That’s not a dig at the perceived parsimony of residents of the Kingdom by the way. For that price it’s a little rich for my blood based on the photos.

[Marty Bonnar]

Marty,


I’m guessing as Fifer you won’t have to pay the £230+ rack rate. That’s not a dig at the perceived parsimony of residents of the Kingdom by the way. For that price it’s a little rich for my blood based on the photos.

Michael,
There's a reduced Scottish Golfer rate as well as the Fifer rate!
F.

[Bryan Izatt]

Marty,


So, that just leaves us internationals to pay the full freight.    I think I'll take a pass at that rate.  So many old gems at more reasonable prices.


Did your friend Martin really goose the colour intensity before he gave the photos to you.  I've never seen colours like that in real life, let alone near the Auld Grey Toon.   

[Jeff Loh]

Is it farmland (a la Castle) or links land?

[Sean_A]

The mix of styles was one of the first things I noticed but I like that. It is happening more and more at UK links courses as they expose areas and just let them go to sand.


Clive Clark had a lot of flair as a golf course architect, he did a lot in the UK back in the 90s, but not heard anything much about him for nearly 25 years.

The two styles here don't seem to blend as well as at other places. But I have to say it makes sense to me to use pots around greens. The blowouts mean a lot more rough and generally that isn't good to mix much with f&f conditions around greens.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

To give credit where it’s due, Clive Clark may be the face but this course is really Paul Kimber and Niall Glen.


My personal opinion is when bunker styles are being mixed, it looks best to try and meld the styles within each bunker: in other words, try and put a sod wall face in some of the natural bunkers, get some natural rough backing some sod wall pots, and don’t make the size differences so stark i.e. don’t have every natural bunker much larger than every pot.

That’s not a comment on Dumbarnie, which I haven’t seen. More on a lot of other work that’s being done.

[Thomas Dai]

Other photos I’ve seen seem to suggest the liberal use of ‘chocolate drop’ dunes on the course.
Atb

[jeffwarne]

The mix of the two styles of bunkers is still weird to me wherever I see it.


I know, it's just esthetics.  But some of those bunkers are really only there for esthetics.

The one furthest from the green(over) is there for a very strategic/penal reason.
It's to make you think twice about using a wedge to access that back shelf from the fairway short and left of the green that no doubt will be mowed and moistened to .23 of an inch or less, leaving the shot to be attempted by the most skilled .001% or the most unskilled (naive)


At the rate they're going, a full tour can be arranged in the area and play a full compliment of 21st Century designed and conditioned courses, without ever having to set foot in or on any of those "old" un"manicured" courses or accomodations.
Thus leaving the rest of the classic courses and towns accessible, affordable and enjoyable.
Big World.

[Will Lozier]

The mix of the two styles of bunkers is still weird to me wherever I see it.


I know, it's just esthetics.  But some of those bunkers are really only there for esthetics.

I was just thinking the same thing, especially after looking through the Turnberry thread. Seems so convoluted.

[Niall C]

Re bunkers/waste areas - everything looks very new and it will be interesting to see how it looks in 10 years time. Does Castle Stuart still have their waster areas and do they still maintain them or do they leave them to their own devices ? Personally I'd like to see the latter happen and see how things develop.

Mounding/dunes - again, probably needs quite a few years to bed in. Presently they look a bit un-natural to my eye.

Path - if it wasn't for the dog-leg layout the Romans would have been proud to call that their own !

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Is it farmland (a la Castle) or links land?

Farmland, but sandy farmland. It goes right up to but not into the Dumbarnie Links SSSI. They chose not to try to use the natural linksland to make planning permission easier to get.

[Niall C]

Adam,

As you know I'm not one to pick fights or be at all pedantic but.........

Your answer suggests that the two ie. farmland and links are mutually exclusive, but if that were the case then most of Turnberry, North Berwick West, Prestwick etc wouldn't be links and that is clearly not the case. The term "farmland" isn't a categorisation of the type of land but rather it's use. Just saying  .

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam,

As you know I'm not one to pick fights or be at all pedantic but.........

Your answer suggests that the two ie. farmland and links are mutually exclusive, but if that were the case then most of Turnberry, North Berwick West, Prestwick etc wouldn't be links and that is clearly not the case. The term "farmland" isn't a categorisation of the type of land but rather it's use. Just saying  .

Niall

Yeah, you're right. But it wasn't natural raw links, that's my point.

[Niall C]

Of course, just having a laugh.

Question; I was clearly not a fan of the Embo application or rather the idea of developing the specific land they applied to get planning permission for, however I think Dumbarnie shows the way forward in how to approach these type of developments. In your opinion and with your practised eye would they have done any better if they had used the SSSI land at Dumbarnie ?

Niall

[Jeff Loh]

Thanks Adam!
Reason I ask is having driven by the land that would become the Castle course in 2005 it didn't remind of traditional "links land."
Whatever that is 

[Ben Stephens]

Just going through my notes on Paul Kimber's well done presentation at BIGGA Harrogate re: Dumbarnie


'Creating a modern golf course that will stand the test of time' by Paul Kimber


- 345 acres
- 2 plateaus - 1 sate 60 ft higher with a steep escarpment separating the two parcels of land


Nov 2018 - site transformed into a links golf course


There were 3 attempts to activate this project in 2013, 2016 and 2017


Planning was approved in 2018 with 45 planning conditions


Investor group - Landscapes Unlimited an American company whose aim was to get the course ready in 2020 and was not prepared to work at risk


It needed to be seeded straight after a short construction period so therefore decisions had to be made very swiftly as the project progressed


Water source was v important - which came from wells on the site


Short window for tree felling carried this out in snowy weather in early 2018


BIGGEST CHALLENGE - 2 Major gas mains pipe which ran perpendicular to each other therefore splitting site into 4 areas


Decisions to use USGA spec or not? as it was a sandy based site


Tight programme to work to


- Earthworks - 12-14 weeks
- Shaping - 16 weeks
- Irrigation and drainage works - 18 weeks
- Final prep - 10 weeks
- Seeding - 12 weeks


Total Construction period 5 and half months in a tight window.


I have to say this is rather impressive and the course has come to fruition really well considering it commenced works in early 2018. Paul said it was the hardest job that he has worked on. I get the feeling that it is more a Paul Kimber course based on the works at Castle Stuart and Clive Clark being the main design consultant


Cheers
Ben

[Adam Lawrence]

Of course, just having a laugh.

Question; I was clearly not a fan of the Embo application or rather the idea of developing the specific land they applied to get planning permission for, however I think Dumbarnie shows the way forward in how to approach these type of developments. In your opinion and with your practised eye would they have done any better if they had used the SSSI land at Dumbarnie ?

Niall

I think you have to distinguish between found and built courses. Dumbarnie, like Kingsbarns and the Castle (the first two were at least sandy) is emphatically a built course. Coul would have been a found one. Is one better than the other? A subjective judgement. But I'm sure you can acknowledge that there is a difference.

[Niall C]

Adam,

I think I know what you mean by found but there was still an awful lot of material going to be moved at Embo so it wasn’t like back in the days when courses were simply “laid out” and the gca used his routing to take into account existing features, utilising them where they could and working round others that proved an issue.

However when you have the choice to bulldoze your way out of a problem, and you intend to use that as a design solution then I’m not sure you can call the course totally found. And while I understand that some gca’s might find using parts of an existing landscape more inspiring than creating a landscape from scratch such as at Kingsbarns etc, these guys are meant to be very good at what they do. I also expect that other gca’s might prefer the blank canvas.

What I’m basically getting at is the notion that you somehow need pristine links land (if there is such a thing) to create a great links course, is basically wrong.

Niall

[Adam Lawrence]

I think you're quibbling Niall. This isn't like you 

[Niall C]

Actually, I think you'll find I'm nitpicking.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find themselves utterly unmoved to play Dumbarnie having looked at them?

[Niall C]

Mark,

I kind of understand what you are saying. The course hasn't been hyped to build the anticipation levels so you are left looking at photos to peak the interest. Bunkered magazine did a spread on it not long ago and I have to say it did look good. That said, after my experience of playing Balmedie when it was quite new I think I'll wait a couple of years for Dumbarnie to bed in before playing it. That will also give me the opportunity of saving up for the greenfee !

Niall

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