YEAMANS HALL - The Yank Is Starting To Get It (A Second Look)

[Ed Oden]

Sean, I am thrilled that you were able to experience Yeamans again.  I have been fortunate to play there a number of times and my appreciation of the course and the quality of its design compound with each successive visit.  I would bet that if you return again the course will grow on you even more.

A thought occurs to me:  As noted in your original post, in many respects Yeamans feels more English than American.  I suspect that feel is one reason why it is viewed as so special over here.  It is just very unique in comparison to other US courses.  Do you think that same English feel which makes Yeamans seem so special to us has a lessened effect on you because its not paarticularly unique for courses in your part of the world?

Best wishes,

Ed

[Sean_A]

  The course came across as more complicated on my initial visit, but it isn't really.

Sean:

I think this is an interesting point to ponder.

When I played there, I thought the course looked initially simple...but as I played, the absolute complexity of the angles and greens and strategy became increasingly apparent.  This seems to be just the opposite of your experience.  I don't think the place is the least bit simple...  As you said, it is amazing how difficult the course can play.  Just a question, but if the place is really not complicated, how come it presents such a challenge?


It is a GREAT place.

Bart

Bart

I think the course plays difficult because of the combination of exceptional greens and fairways angles which can take nearly full advantage of what the greens offer.  It isn't a complicated course when standing on the tees.  The strategies of the holes are very apparent.  Indeed, the strategies match the bluntness of the features.  There is very little subtlety about YHC.

Ciao  

Sean:

While I agree that the IDEAL strategy for most of the holes is apparent on the tee, what happens with a slight lack of execution of the tee ball?  When you are just slightly out of position (or substantially so) the strategy of the next shot is far from clear to me....In fact, I was constantly puzzled as to what I should attempt from those less than ideal positions.  You certainly are entitled to your opinion, but I find Yeamans to be remarkably subtle.  What do others have to say about the place:  subtle or blunt?

Bart

Bart

If you are caught out of position at Yeamans it is almost always best to take your medicine and play for bogey, but hope to chip close enough to have a decent shot at making a putt.  OR, just play to the fat part of the green and hope to 2 putt.  The problem I find with the second option is the greens tend to be firm and even doing this sometimes can be a difficult ask.  Sure, there may be temptation to "go for the shot", but I think we really do know the smart play once in poor position.  The bunkers are too penal and numerous to be dealing with anymore than a few times if one wants to keep his score together.  

Ed

Whitty pointed out to me that I must remember that YHC is for most Americans a pretty wild course that they will rarely see the likes of again.  So from this perspective, you are right.  Still, YHC only reminds me of English courses in terms of its maintenance and feel; the design is distinctintive enough to stand well out of the crowd in England.  I think I said this before, but it reminds me a lot of Beau Desert even though BD is very hilly and has far fewer bunkers.  Its the greens and angles which stand out as similar to a point even though YHC's are more contoured, but no more tricky.

No for me, the lessened effect has more to do with repeated recovery shots from sand or over sand around the greens.  To me, this makes the course play up and down, meaning don't be wide.  Generally, long and short are the places to miss with short nearly always being the best place.  I think the course would actually be improved with less sand and perhaps using some of the boldness in creating some humps and hollows - features I think would work very well at Yeamans and presumably on most Raynor courses.  

Ciao

[Ed Oden]

Sean, I've been meaning to post this question since my England trip this summer.  We played a couple of rounds at Woodhall Spa and I was struck by the remarkable depth of the bunkers, particularly some of the greenside bunkers.  It reminded me of your criticism of Yeamans on this thread.  Do you have similar criticism of Woodhall Spa?  Personally, I loved Woodhall Spa's bold bunkering and the exhilarating challenge of just getting out.  How do you think the recovery shots at Woodhall comparison to Yeamans?

Best wishes,

Ed

[Sean_A]

Interesting question Ed.  First off, I don't have a problem with the depth of the YHC's bunkers; same for Woodhall. I think both clubs get it just about right.  My issue with the YHC's greenside bunkering is the repetitive nature of their placement and firmness of the sand.  I don't play badly from them, but most of the guys I was with struggled mightily.  It was very common for a greenside bunker to be at least a 2 shot penalty.  I am not against a 2 shot, 5 shot or pickup penalty from sand, but it shouldn't be a common scene.  Of course, most would say the bunkers are too deep and maybe they are right, but I think its a sand issue.  

Woodhall has a bit more variety of bunker placement around the greens including many that are set well off the greens and some greens with no bunkering.  There is also the added bonus that they are very handsome, perhaps the most attractive bunkers I have experienced.  However, personally, I would rather see less greenside bunkering and more happening with the greens to offset that loss of challenge.  In the end, just in terms of getting out (not worrying how close one gets to the hole), I think Woodhall's greenside bunkers are more difficult than YHC's at least partly because of how vertical the walls are and one doesn't often get uphill lies.  If we take into account sloping greens then YHC's bunkers are probably just as difficult if not moreso.  I know I can get out of the sand fairly well, but I rarely had an opportunity to play at holes because the slope of the greens.  One has to be an excellent bunker player at YHC to be aggressive. However, I bet most golfers wouldn't draw any distinction of difficulty.  

If we are talking about fairway bunkering, YHC is streets ahead of Woodhall.  Woodhall's are more difficult by quite a margin, but the placement at YHC is very good.  

Ciao

[Sean_A]

I updated the tour with some old photos nicked from the web.  My hope was to compare some of the old photos with the aerials, but I notice Photobucket strikes again 

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Terrific old photos. I’ve coloured some and sent them to you in case you wish to post them. They really highlight the severity of some of the contouring etc.
Atb

[Mike Hendren]

Always refreshing to remember that The Yank has friends in high places.

Yeamans Hall is splendid.  No small feat for Seth Raynor to introduce his rather heavy-handed design principald in a remarkably  understated manner.  I don't know any other way to say it.  Minimalist on one hand, yet manufactured on the other but somewhat miraculously in a seamless way. It is among the great walks in golf.   Ironically it could be exhibit A for a design approach attributable to  one of Raynor's contemporaries - hard par, easy bogie according to Donald J. Ross.  It's one of the few greats I long go return to. 

Not to mention the charming Southern ambiance that has slowly eroded since the course's conception.  Maybe this place is the Real Augusta.

Bogey

[Sean_A]

Always refreshing to remember that The Yank has friends in high places.

Yeamans Hall is splendid.  No small feat for Seth Raynor to introduce his rather heavy-handed design principald in a remarkably understated manner.  I don't know any other way to say it.  Minimalist on one hand, yet manufactured on the other but somewhat miraculously in a seamless way. It is among the great walks in golf.   Ironically it could be exhibit A for a design approach attributable to  one of Raynor's contemporaries - hard par, easy bogie according to Donald J. Ross.  It's one of the few greats I long go return to. 

Not to mention the charming Southern ambiance that has slowly eroded since the course's conception.  Maybe this place is the Real Augusta.

Bogey

Yes, golfers are a generous lot.  I think my favourite aspect of the course is that it allows for recovery shots...it may even encourage bold recovery...until one wises up.  Yep, I would like to play YHC again at some point. 

Ciao

[Peter Flory]

The original version looks bolder in the shaping.  Great set of pics.