Seminole

[Jeff Schley]

P.S.  I'm guessing DR never envisioned in his wildest dreams players driving in the greenside bunkers on 16.

I don't doubt that it happened in his lifetime. Wind and firm ground can perform miracles.

If it were a straight away hole, I could see that John.

But they all took a line that appeared to necessitate a 300 + yard carry, because you aren't getting much help from the soft waste area sand if you land in it..

They weren't playing it from the original tees.

JC,

That's kind of my point.  They played 16 from presumably a new set of C&C tees, even further back, and still hit into the greenside bunkers.

IIRC correctly it played just over 400 yards yesterday, not sure what the member tees are...

Exactly, the new tees are even farther back, but still having players bomb at the green with hero carries, that don't require you to be a hero at that level of skill.

[Alex Miller]

It reminds me a bit of the East Coast version of CPC

Upon reflection, it seems much more like the East Coast version of SFGC. A site that's 1/2 awesome and 1/2 plain. Exceptional holes where the terrain is interesting, but a small number of less inspiring holes where the terrain is flat. CPC has 18 holes of interesting terrain. Yes, Cypress Point depends on wind for much of its challenge as Seminole does. Maybe East Coast Cypress would be Fisher's Island?

Not a knock on any east coast course, because I think declaring Cypress the end all be all is wrong (it's a 10 though don't get me wrong). CPC moves through dunes, to forest, back to dunes and then calls for perhaps the most heroic shot(s) in golf along the water. I'm not aware of any east coast course that ticks all these boxes, but many shine in ways even Cypress doesn't.


Cheers

[JESII]

How much different are the current tees from the previous ones? Looking at Google Earth, they seem pretty close to my recollection of the old...

[Kalen Braley]

How much different are the current tees from the previous ones? Looking at Google Earth, they seem pretty close to my recollection of the old...

At the start of the day, they said the total yardage is now 7200+.

[JESII]

Right...I'm just asking about #16 specifically.

[Kalen Braley]

Right...I'm just asking about #16 specifically.

Good point, I pulled up Google Earth.

Looks like they didn't have much room to extend the hole with the range right behind the tee.  I'll post screen shots later, but from the back tee, its about a 320 yard carry over everything on the line to the green.

From the middle of the middle tee box its about a 305 yard carry, and from the middle of the front tee box about 270.

I'm sticking with my original assertion that DR didn't anticipate that line.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ross saw Sam Snead play. It wouldn't take much imagination to think that he could pull off that shot in the right conditions.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Not a knock on any east coast course, because I think declaring Cypress the end all be all is wrong (it's a 10 though don't get me wrong). CPC moves through dunes, to forest, back to dunes and then calls for perhaps the most heroic shot(s) in golf along the water. I'm not aware of any east coast course that ticks all these boxes, but many shine in ways even Cypress doesn't.

Cabot Cliffs!

[Alex Miller]

Not a knock on any east coast course, because I think declaring Cypress the end all be all is wrong (it's a 10 though don't get me wrong). CPC moves through dunes, to forest, back to dunes and then calls for perhaps the most heroic shot(s) in golf along the water. I'm not aware of any east coast course that ticks all these boxes, but many shine in ways even Cypress doesn't.

Cabot Cliffs!

One of the more enjoyable plays on The Golf Club 2019 that does rival Cypress (virtually)! Perhaps for just that reason. Sadly that's the experience I'm limited to for Cabot 


All I can say for Seminole is that given the site which is already very good, I can't really hate on the course at all. I really enjoyed watching the event and thought the course architecture and presentation of it was fantastic.

[JLahrman]

I wish they would have miked up the players a little more, some of their conversations would have been interesting. Or at least, hopefully would have been. Would have been nice to see more personality from those guys.


The players did look to be playing their shots quickly.


The course had a lot more sand than I was expecting.


Best part might have been not having to watch players/caddies give each other fist bumps. The time has come to move on.

[Kalen Braley]

I only stayed tuned to the end for the course

The golf was a bit ragged, took Steve Sands 6 holes to start social distancing correctly, Wolff looked like a lost puppy on the front 9, and the guest interviews ranged from boring to absymal.

I hope they continue this trend at other rarely seen venues like NGLA, Pine Valley, CPC, etc...

[JESII]

Right...I'm just asking about #16 specifically.

Good point, I pulled up Google Earth.

Looks like they didn't have much room to extend the hole with the range right behind the tee.  I'll post screen shots later, but from the back tee, its about a 320 yard carry over everything on the line to the green.

From the middle of the middle tee box its about a 305 yard carry, and from the middle of the front tee box about 270.

I'm sticking with my original assertion that DR didn't anticipate that line.

Agreed.


Taking that route and missing short/right leaves you dead as well. Can’t get it on the green from there.

[John Kavanaugh]

That would lead me to believe that Ross imagined it, anticipated it and discouraged it.

[JESII]

About comparable to an architect today imagining someone driving #13 at Augusta...

[William_G]

-fun golf TV with a huge architectural slant 
-Ross designed an excellent routing
-C&C did a commendable tune up
-the club is not for average golfers
-Club President Jimmy Dunne was his usual great golf self and the Golden Domes as tee markers was classic!
-nice to see the pros carrying, not looking at yardage/green books and sweating like everyone else on a hot day at Seminole
-fortunate to have played there more than once
-approach shot golf course for sure
-17 is just a great par 3
thank you to everyone involved

[Mike_Young]

For those who have played Seminole, what is it about the course that makes it so great? I thought some of the waste-area aspects on the fringes of the course had a cool Pinehurst look to them. But otherwise, it just appeared to be a typical flat Florida course with palm trees and sea breeze and I suppose somewhat unique (for Florida) elevated greens? I'm sure it's an amazing place to spend a day, but what is it about the architecture that makes it so special?

IMHO it is an exceptional golf course for Florida and is not flat.  The overall atmosphere is a the top with some of that being the clubhouse.  If I had to play in that part of the woods and could choose ..it would be Indian Creek.  And I ask myself what gets me nd I think it is the palm trees..

[Tim Martin]

-fun golf TV with a huge architectural slant 
-Ross designed an excellent routing
-C&C did a commendable tune up
-the club is not for average golfers
-Club President Jimmy Dunne was his usual great golf self and the Golden Domes as tee markers was classic!
-nice to see the pros carrying, not looking at yardage/green books and sweating like everyone else on a hot day at Seminole
-fortunate to have played there more than once
-approach shot golf course for sure
-17 is just a great par 3
thank you to everyone involved

William-Seminole is just one of the courses where C&C brought the exposed sand areas back into the design. Pinehurst # 2, Shinnecock and Maidstone are all examples of same.

[William_G]

Hi Tim,
Glad you are well
cheers

[MCirba]

William_G,
Agree with your observations by and large but what does "the club is not for average golfers" mean to you?

I understand what that means at Pine Valley, for instance, given the penal-nature designed for low-handicap players, but I wouldn't think of Seminole in that manner.  Thanks.

[Ted Sturges]

I wish they would have miked up the players a little more, some of their conversations would have been interesting. Or at least, hopefully would have been. Would have been nice to see more personality from those guys.


The players did look to be playing their shots quickly.


The course had a lot more sand than I was expecting.


Best part might have been not having to watch players/caddies give each other fist bumps. The time has come to move on.

Did anyone catch the comment from Wolf on the front 9 when he hit it right, into the sand dune?  He turned to DJ and said "Hey Dustin...is this a waste bunker?"  That was epic.

[Kalen Braley]

Mike,


Interesting mention of the palm trees, which given how sparse they were seemed appropriate...except for the approach on 9.  They looked to be quite imposing when going for the green in 2 and seemed to force a big draw or hook around them.


P.S.  Mike I too would think the average golfer would struggle mightly on Seminolel. Those approach shots looked to require a lot of precision and even Fowler, one of the best putters in the world, struggled a fair bit on those greens. Between missed GIRs and 3 jacks, i'm guessing double would be easy to get on most holes.

[MCirba]

Mike,


Interesting mention of the palm trees, which given how sparse they were seemed appropriate...except for the approach on 9.  They looked to be quite imposing when going for the green in 2 and seemed to force a big draw or hook around them.


P.S.  Mike I too would think the average golfer would struggle mightly on Seminolel. Those approach shots looked to require a lot of precision and even Fowler, one of the best putters in the world, struggled a fair bit on those greens. Between missed GIRs and 3 jacks, i'm guessing double would be easy to get on most holes.

Interesting, in that Seminole is often held up as a great example of a course that can challenge top players while remaining eminently playable for members. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

In a perverse way it was refreshing to see these great players struggle reading the greens. When I played their my caddie told me to aim at place I never would have if i had read the greens on my own.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,


Interesting mention of the palm trees, which given how sparse they were seemed appropriate...except for the approach on 9.  They looked to be quite imposing when going for the green in 2 and seemed to force a big draw or hook around them.


P.S.  Mike I too would think the average golfer would struggle mightly on Seminolel. Those approach shots looked to require a lot of precision and even Fowler, one of the best putters in the world, struggled a fair bit on those greens. Between missed GIRs and 3 jacks, i'm guessing double would be easy to get on most holes.

Interesting, in that Seminole is often held up as a great example of a course that can challenge top players while remaining eminently playable for members.

Which explains why there are membership committees.

[Jason Thurman]

What's unplayable about a course where average members can easily make double on a lot of holes? According to the first source that Google pulls up, the average member is a 16.1 handicap. I would hate to play a course where a 16 can't easily make a double.