Butterfield Trail ( T. Fazio, 2007) in El Paso, TX to close May 31

[Steve_ Shaffer]

COVID-19 fallout: Award-winning Butterfield Trail golf course closing to save El Paso cash


The almost 13-year-old golf course is being closed to save the El Paso International Airport, which owns and operates it, $1 million a year.That's how much the course was losing — money that came from airport revenues, including land leases for industrial buildings and hotels on airport property.

https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/local/el-paso/2020/04/15/covid-19-fallout-el-paso-award-winning-butterfield-trail-golf-course-closing/5142366002/




https://www.golf.com/travel/2020/04/20/butterfield-trail-el-paso-muni-mondays/

[Ronald Montesano]

Wow, I loved that course. I played in in October of 2015. What is the golf climate like in El Paso? Were there other CCFAD in the area, that siphoned money off from BT?

[Bernie Bell]

Is this a common thing?
"Lombraña told the El Paso Times in 2018 that it costs more to maintain Butterfield than many public courses because it has to adhere to high-quality standards instituted under a license agreement with the course's designer, Tom Fazio, a renowned golf-course architect who's designed more than 200 golf courses."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bernie,


Forrest Richardson and I were talking about that off line.  I think a few signature designers have tried to enforce long term maintenance standards, but failed.  I would like to know the particulars of that arrangement.  It's hard to conceive of any city feeling tied to spending a million extra bucks on maintenance because the designer said so.


Forrest and I both made the final interview, and I thought I had a nice chance, given Lee Trevino had agreed to be on my team, and actually went to the interview. They had strict time limits, but let Lee go on a little longer because of who he is/was.  But, it wasn't enough to offset substantial campaign contributions made by the well connected civil engineer on Fazio's team.


At least we found out quick.  Forrest and I were having a drink in the airport prior to departure when the call came.  Then, I sat next to Jay Morrish on the flight to DFW, and upon landing, went to a steak dinner with him.  Hey, despite losing out on a nice project, spending time with those two generally makes (made) my day.

[Tom_Doak]

Is this a common thing?
"Lombraña told the El Paso Times in 2018 that it costs more to maintain Butterfield than many public courses because it has to adhere to high-quality standards instituted under a license agreement with the course's designer, Tom Fazio, a renowned golf-course architect who's designed more than 200 golf courses."

Oof.


That's a bad look.  I know that it's really an attempt to avoid an Apache Stronghold type situation, but mandating a huge budget does not guarantee great conditions - it only guarantees $ out the door.

[Pete_Pittock]

could have save a lot of money with different bunker edging scheme.  Played it at the end of the Wolf Point halloween week closure, where my itinerary was worthy of a politician running for statewide office    Wolf Point, Rawls, Black Jack Crossing, Butterfield Trail

[Forrest Richardson]

I'll never forget the call. First, I thought Brauer had the edge. After all, he had the "The Merry Mex" on his team. In fact, while Jay Morrish was presenting, another group arrived and we were asked to wait in an area where secretary's were working. Brauer was already there with Travino, but they had to move because another team had showed up. The next thing I knew Travino was sitting on some woman's desk telling jokes. We were toast!

Now the call. Our clubhouse architect was "in the fold" of City politics. He found out 30 minutes after the last team presented because he had a drink with one of the City Council members immediately after the 4 or 5 golf architects had finished. I fully expected him to say, "Brauer and Trevino won..."...only to inform me it was awarded to some obscure engineering company located in Houston or Dallas. Of course that later panned out to be the Fazio team, who never let their name out of the bag to the other candidates. Jeff was shocked, and so was I.

My regret was not getting a chance to bring some of my ideas to reality. That's always the way it goes, but you move on. Never good to be among a list, but I will admit it was a neat job...so we all took the bait.

[Joel_Stewart]

There needs to be a list of Fazio courses that have closed.

[Jeff_Brauer]

…...He found out 30 minutes after the last team presented because he had a drink with one of the City Council members immediately after the 4 or 5 golf architects had finished. I fully expected him to say, "Brauer and Trevino won..."...only to inform me it was awarded to some obscure engineering company located in Houston or Dallas. Of course that later panned out to be the Fazio team, who never let their name out of the bag to the other candidates. Jeff was shocked, and so was I.

Had that happened, I am sure the quote would have been, "Trevino won...…"

[Lynn_Shackelford]

You guys got me remembering oral interviews with cities.  They can be silly, comical, unprofessional and memorable.  Once I was waiting with a co worker for an oral interview in Laredo.  It was for a management contract.  I city guy comes out and says "is Billy Casper here?"  Of course I knew what he meant, someone from Billy Casper Golf Management.  He keeps looking around and finally says to on one in particular, I guess Billy isn't here.  When he went back inside I turned to my fellow worker and said, "I could have told him Billy Casper wasn't going to be here today."
Not unusual in these settings to be dealing with staffers and elected officials who have little to no knowledge of the industry.
Bribes are usually the most efficient persuasion.

[Tom_Doak]

Bribes are usually the most efficient persuasion.

What kind of bribes are we talking about here - hypothetically, of course?  More than a nice dinner out?  Cash?

[Jeff_Brauer]

In the case of El Paso, Forrest and I recall it a bit differently.  I believe the engineer was a local firm in one councilman's district, who had mad perfectly legal campaign contributions over the years, probably for a mix of altruistic and business purposes, right?  I do recall the south Texas entity was a well known Texas pro, Buddy Cook.  Not that any of that matters.


Lynn,


I made the Laredo interview for design, not management.  I thought the process was all right, despite a negative outcome for me.  The city official in charge did follow up with one of the classiest phone calls I ever got - sometimes they are even afraid to talk tot he losers, and you get that "thin letter" in the mail a few week s later.  But, he explained where we were on points, etc.  He knew we had gone all in on it, spending much more time on our proposal, making many site visits, and what not.  He actually

felt bad when they went with the early front runner, RTJ II, who had done some preliminary work for the developer.  Funny, but there were rumors that Perry Dye was in the lead, because he knew someone. 

On one of those site visits, I actually got stopped by the border patrol for wandering too close to the Rio Grande.  A shock to turn around and see agents coming up on you quick!  He seemed to think a golf course routing plan (chicken scratch stage) could have just been one of the most elaborate ruses ever to gain entry into the country!


Those rumors always happen, but sometimes the selection is really out of left field, a la Hanse for the Olympic course, winning as the supposed big underdog.

[Greg Clark]

Sorry to hear this, but it isn't a shocker.  I played the course just once.  It was four years ago, and I was driving back from the San Diego area to relocate my retired parents to the Dallas area.  I don't really get to El Paso, so I stopped to play the course.  It was late in the afternoon and there was a dust storm going on with sustained 30+ mile an hour winds.  I was surprised they stayed open, and I was the only one playing due to the brutal conditions. Probably the worst I have ever played in, but I did want to see the course.


The two main thoughts I had was that I liked the course quite a bit, and that I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up a money pit.  The course has a number of very large vegetated waste areas.  I wouldn't be surprised if these areas were sold as if they wouldn't require a lot of maintenance, but to me they clearly were going to need it.  The course was in good shape, but not pristine.  It played pretty firm.  But you could tell that the course would be fighting a tough battle with the wind and nature.  They also clearly spent money on a pretty nice clubhouse.  Fazio built a nice course there, and it was a bit more rustic than most of his offerings, but it still had many more flourishes to it than muni's generally have.  I'm sure they spent too much money on it for the market it was serving.


I'm not sure how robust the El Paso golf scene is.  In a hypothetical and imaginary world, if you could transport the course to the Dallas area, it would have done very well.

[Brad Tufts]

I'd say this is a semi-significant loss, especially in El Paso.  I played BT twice, and thought it unique, especially for Fazio.


As a Northeasterner used to parkland, I find the scrubby ground in many parts of the West compelling, and I enjoyed Butterfield's meander through scrub landscapes with mountains in the distance, a historical mail/wagon trail in evidence, and screaming Southwest planes and border patrol blackhawks in the skies all around.  To me, it just added up to a very El Paso golf experience for someone that only spends one day there per year.


As a piece of architecture, it seemed pretty darn good.  It was strategic in places, and the jagged trending natural bunker edges fit in the the scrub much better than it would have in a more manicured setting.  It had a good variety of holes, and nothing I can remember that offended the senses.  For a site that is rather windy for much of the year, it was wide and forgiving, with plenty of room to miss, although you needed to skirt trouble to score.


My one story was that my second round there was the windiest sunny-weather round I have ever played.  I was the only player on the course, and went out when it was easily blowing 40-50mph, with tumbleweeds rocketing through the parking lot, etc.  The guy in the shop welcomed me to play, but told me it could get wild later and they would come and get me.  It was plenty playable, although very very difficult.  I enjoyed a few successes, like a birdie on #9, and a 50y wind-draw to 15 feet on the 225y 17th.  On #18, 550 par five, I hit two good woods about 450y, and had about 95 yards remaining into a HUGE wind.  I hit a full 9i, splash in the pond short of the green, then an 8i, splash, then a 7i...again balloon straight up, then splash.  I think I did finally hit a waist-high shot that airmailed the green by alot.  I went straight to the car!


Later that day I drove to Tucson, and all of I-10 traffic was diverted off-highway through every small town (think Radiator Springs, no Mater sightings though) due to sandstorms from the wind closing the highway.  A 4.5 hour drive took about 7 hours!


Too bad it sounds like they had a plan in place to make the course permanent-ish, and now that chance is gone.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Somewhere back in time, there was a cartoon strip.  It might have been Bizarro or maybe That's Jake.  But I clearly remember the one panel cartoon, with the caption "Why West Texas will never be a golf resort"  or similar.  Of course, the cartoon showed cactus, hot sun, dust, wind, etc. 


I always wondered about whether there could be a real world class public out there.  Most courses look a bit scraggly over time out there, and there is a reason.  When I was last there, some water quality issues were keep the turf off color, for instance.  They have turned just as tough areas, i.e., Palm Springs, into golf resorts, but I suspect El Paso is pretty tough on superintendents.

[Scott Weersing]

I wonder when it was a good idea for a city to build a high end golf course. These type of courses are not sustainable.


It reminds me of The Crossings in Carlsbad which cost $70 million to build in 2007.


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-city-to-pay-off-golf-course-bond-debt-2016jul07-story.html


I wonder what other public funded Fazio courses are out there.  Here in Virginia, Lester George was hired to redesign Fazio-designed Independence Golf Club so that it would be cheaper to maintain.

[Greg Clark]

Buttefield Trail cost $11M to build in 2007.  It look like a local developer has a proposal to save the course, but I can't imagine the airport or city agreeing to his terms. 


https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/2020/04/22/el-paso-developer-will-save-butterfield-trail-golf-course-coronavirus-if-airport-gives-him-land/2998627001/