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David_Tepper

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Tom_Doak

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM »
Purdis Heath (Ipswich) has been on my radar for quite some time as a course I'd like to see.


Berkhamstead, not until now, though.

Mark Pearce

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2020, 12:44:59 PM »
Berkhamstead, not until now, though.
I grew up not far from Berkhamsted (no "a").  I really enjoy it and it is notable for being bunkerless.  A lot of obviously artificial shaping, which reminds me of a slightly toned down Kington, as can be seen from the pictures in that article.
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2020, 12:47:19 PM »
Purdis Heath (Ipswich) has been on my radar for quite some time as a course I'd like to see.
A few of us were planning a visit to Suffolk for this spring, but the virus has put an end to that. I was hoping Purdis Heath would be included in that trip. It definitely will be now, when we have a chance to go there... which I am guessing will be next spring. I hope!  :-\
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Peter Pallotta

Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2020, 02:31:09 PM »
This reminds me of an article I read from 1906, about a trend in gca they dubbed "Thinking Golf". The article -- from a U.S. paper, maybe the New York Sun -- mentioned Walton Heath as a wonderful example of 'Thinking Golf', and suggested that club committees in America were busy altering their courses to better exemplify this new ethos/ideal, i.e. the idea that hazards should be placed so that players could think their way around them instead of being forced to go over them.

Interestingly, the article noted that the great amateurs (golfers) of the day were more enamoured of Thinking Golf idea than the professionals (golfer-architects) were; both Braid and Taylor, for example, thought it 'unfair' that a worse player was not necessarily penalized for being unable to get over a hazard that the better player could.

But, as Sean A noted (more than a decade ago when I first posted about this): while Braid has a reputation for penal bunkering, he didn't know of a Braid course -- other than Carnoustie -- that relies of that sort of design, and certainly none of his best designs did. And, as Sean suggested, perhaps Braid spoke of 'unfairness' in context of championship golf/golf courses only, and had a clear division in his mind about when such bunkering was & wasn't appropriate.

Edit: I went to look up that article, and here's a quote: "All agree that rough grass is fine as a continuous side hazard. Side bunkers are endorsed, the best so placed that they will not be affected by the wind. James  Braid endorses side bunkers at 150 to   180 yards from the tee.  Side hazards and hazards in and across the fairway to the hole are agreed on as the most severe tests of skill. Colt regards pot bunkers as preferable to  all  but natural ones..."

« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 02:34:25 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Sean_A

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2020, 06:59:56 PM »
I like the title...of the Best. Given that Braid really shined when given unusual land I would have liked to seen Pennard mentioned. Hard not to mention Perranporth as well.  If trying to avoid any name recognition, Welshpool would be THE course I would list.

I like Berkhamsted. I would admire it far more if tons of trees were removed and the short holes were sorted out.

All in all, Braid remains a terribly under-rated archie so any articles of this nature are welcome.

Is Bora really a Braid course?  Does anybody have evidence to show what Braid designed?  The Moreton book is very vague on the subject.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Michael Whitaker

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2020, 07:08:55 PM »
Is Bora really a Braid course?  Does anybody have evidence to show what Braid designed?  The Moreton book is very vague on the subject.
Sean - Brora GC says there course is Braid. They declare it on their website. And, they are the headquarters of the James Braid Golfing Society. I'd hate to think that the course was actually designed by someone else... it would burst a lot of bubbles!  ;)
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Sean_A

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2020, 07:15:14 PM »
Is Bora really a Braid course?  Does anybody have evidence to show what Braid designed?  The Moreton book is very vague on the subject.
Sean - Brora GC says there course is Braid. They declare it on their website. And, they are the headquarters of the James Braid Golfing Society. I'd hate to think that the course was actually designed by someone else... it would burst a lot of bubbles!  ;)

Yep, folks say Brora is a Braid...but is it?  I wouldn't mind seeing some evidence because its another one of those revised courses and it was revised almost 100 years ago.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 08:46:37 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

David_Tepper

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2020, 08:29:11 PM »
Braid's invoice for services rendered to Golspie GC is mounted on the wall inside the Golspie clubhouse. I think he was there in 1923 or 24. The Golspie course had been in play for 25-30 years prior to his visit. It reasonable (even logical) to assume he visited Brora on the same trip.   


In addition to Golspie, Brora and Boat of Garten, Braid is credited for working at Fortrose & Rosemarkie, Muir of Ord, Inverness and Reay.

http://www.jamesbraidhighland.golf/


Paul Dolton

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2020, 07:55:58 AM »
Purdis Heath (Ipswich) has been on my radar for quite some time as a course I'd like to see.


Berkhamstead, not until now, though.


Tom,
Purdis Heath is excellent and very much under the radar. I played in England mid -am there several years ago and went back last year with a friend.
He has played over 400 courses but was very impressed.
Berkhamstead is also very good and holds a big amateur event which kicks off the season.


Thomas Dai

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2020, 08:11:22 AM »
James Braid doesn't get the praise he ought to receive for this design work. Some of his work on poor terrain is pretty amazing.
As to Brora, I recall that Braids invoice for visiting and design services on the course is displayed in a frame on the Clubhouse wall. £15 plus expenses is my recollection.
atb


PS - He could play a bit too .... and how 'present day' does his technique look ever more so given the clothes and the hickory shafted wooden headed club! Wonderful, just wonderful!



PSS - did anyone ever look wiser than James Braid? :)

« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 04:04:14 PM by Thomas Dai »

Richard Fisher

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2020, 08:30:07 AM »
Another chance to plug Suffolk as a terrific and under-exposed venue for golf: a thoroughly enjoyable, if tiring, week could be had at

Purdis Heath (Ipswich GC)
Woodbridge
Thorpeness
Aldeburgh

with the whole bookended perhaps by 18 holes at Flempton and The Sacred Nine.

Apart from Worly, Aldeburgh takes the prize, but the others (especially Woodbridge, I think) are absolutely worth a go.

As is Berkhamsted, even though it does contain some drives over active roads I am amazed that the golfer is still allowed to essay...

Mike Bodo

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2020, 09:31:14 AM »
Interestingly, the article noted that the great amateurs (golfers) of the day were more enamoured of Thinking Golf idea than the professionals (golfer-architects) were; both Braid and Taylor, for example, thought it 'unfair' that a worse player was not necessarily penalized for being unable to get over a hazard that the better player could.
Given how PGA Tour pros want everything cookie cutter and have near identical conditions from one week to the next I'd argue this still applies today and is why I look forward to them playing non-generic courses such as Pebble, Torrey, Riviera, Sawgrass, ANGC, Colonial, Harbor Town, Muirfield Village, etc. as it requires them to actually think their way around a course as opposed to overpowering it.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Sean_A

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2020, 10:54:02 AM »
James Braid doesn't get the praise he ought to receive for this design work. Some of his work on poor terrain is pretty amazing.
As to Brora, I recall that Braids invoice for visiting and design services on the course is displayed in a frame on the Clubhouse wall. £15 plus expenses is my recollection.
atb

I am not disputing Braid visited the club.  I am seeking clarity on what Braid designed and if it remains intact.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Jon Wiggett

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2020, 02:49:57 PM »

Sean,


on the one side Brora does not have many of the classic Braid traits but I do not think there is any doubt that the bones are his work. I would tend to err on the side of Brora still been almost intact simply because the club has never had the funds to substantially alter anything.
He is in my opinion the most underrated GCA in the UK.
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For the record, Grantown on Spey is also his work if I am not mistaken.

Niall C

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2020, 04:58:31 AM »
Re Brora - on Ed Oden's thread regarding plans there is a plan of the old course. Unfortunately for whatever reason I can't see it. From memory however John Sutherland of Dornoch fame designed the first nine and then later on a second nine to bring it up to the "regulation" 18. IIRC Sutherland's routing was basically a clockwise routing whereas Braid's was anti-clockwise. Somewhere I think I have Sutherland's 18 hole routing which would hopefully confirm that. Need to check.

Niall

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2020, 03:21:34 PM »
Ipswich Golf Club aka Purdis Heath

The following photos are from my only visit in December 2015.  Memory suggests it was a  particularly wet winter but the course played fine.  An obviously well to do club, with a manicured and well presented course.  Ipswich city centre is not impressive but parts of the town are suburbs with a large commuter element working in London 80 miles to the West. Purdis Heath is right on the edge of town. I played with someone who’d just joined and the whole experience was friendly and welcoming. It’s definitely worth a visit. 
Although Braid 1928, gets the credit here its worth noting that Hawtree and Taylor were employed to construct it. They did some fine work in East Anglia, Hainault Forrest Upper and Lower and Chigwell. So the routing was likely Braid but who can honestly say about the detail?
NB the course is routed as an outer and inner link of 2 9’s each moving in a different direction.

The round stated dull and the low sun made photography difficult – so just a few.

4th Hole The one you’ll remember  -the  !!? one. 429 yards.
Sign on Tee

tee shot


Fairway runs out (I’m guessing at 280 yards.  So if you’ve hit a good one you can walk forward and check out the green – which is at the bottom of a large pit!
(This was the result of an underhit 2nd)




Looking back



I was most impressed with a fine set of Par 3’s, this is the 6th.


Although several fairways are flat its well bunkered and holes do move up and down.
 

The greens make for smallish targets – very interesting.



Even in winter the Heather is evident. 


Approach to 9th Green


11th looking back #the similarities to the Surrey Courses is evident.


13th?




15th Best of the Par 3’s? – certainly the prettiest.


Home Hole

Overall its very playable for Club golfers,  and whilst there were some nice short par 4’s I doubt there’s enough there to test the longest players once the ground firms up and the ball runs. Still, not my problem and I eagerly look forward to a return visit.  Perhaps not quite up there with Swinley and Sunnigdale but worthy of inclusion in the discussion for the next best Heathlands in the UK.

PS their relief 9 holer also gets high praise from the members and it's seriously cheap.

PS I don’t have photos but I also played Woodbridge – less than 20 miles away. Another Braid Heathland, but one with less ‘polish’ or detailing but equally engaging and I’d rather base myself there than Ipswich!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 03:30:50 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

David_Tepper

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2020, 04:17:17 PM »
Tony -

Thanks for the pics. Braid was certainly very good with par-3's.

DT
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 09:28:45 AM by David_Tepper »

John Mayhugh

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2020, 07:35:45 AM »
Tony,
Thanks for the photos. Hope to visit there someday.
The hole location sign for the 4th was due to the approach being blind?

ward peyronnin

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 05:12:37 PM »
I have come to believe that after Brora, St Enodoc, Perranporth, Pennard I will not be disapppinted by a James Braid course. He and Colt are in a class by themselves.
And who among you has not practised that raised eyebrow steely stare and who among you has succeeded? Not Me.
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Garland Bayley

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2020, 11:23:56 PM »

Yep, folks say Brora is a Braid...but is it?  I wouldn't mind seeing some evidence because its another one of those revised courses and it was revised almost 100 years ago.

Ciao

Have you been to the club and read their history? Moreton or Cumming have, and their book discusses his visits, and work there.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2020, 11:48:11 PM »
Glad to see Tenby getting love.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2020, 04:22:24 PM »
Tony,
Thanks for the photos. Hope to visit there someday.
The hole location sign for the 4th was due to the approach being blind?


Sorry just seen this. I believe it is but as the greens not huge I can't think its a great help.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Thomas Dai

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Re: 5 of Braid's Best Courses
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2020, 05:34:24 PM »
Here’s a thread a while ago about Braids course at Cockermouth - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60053.msg1421009.html#msg1421009 - shame Mr Photobucket has done his bit to the posted photos.
There’ll be many a Braid course in the U.K. that remains largely unknown. Indeed some courses may not even realise they have a Braid heritage.
Atb