Houses on Golf Courses

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

There’s a big difference between a few homes on a golf course around the perimeter and homes surrounding every single hole.   There’s also the proximity. Does it feel cramped like you’re playing in someone’s backyard?

Agreed there,


But a course like Pasatiempo is nothing short of great IMO and there are visible homes on every hole and at least a handful where they are in play.

[JWinick]

I think we are on the same page.   But, on some level, it does detract a bit from the experience when there are too many. 

[Kalen Braley]

I think we are on the same page.   But, on some level, it does detract a bit from the experience when there are too many.

That argument can be made as well.  But it comes down to are the holes good enough anyways to still be considered great?

[JWinick]

Nevertheless, homes are a necessary component to make most new golf course projects work.   I’m sure there is a trade-off between how many homes you squeeze on a property and what it does for the experience.


I personally love golf course communities for the proximity and convenience, but the golf does suffer slightly. 

[Kalen Braley]

Yea i try to look at it more in the macro view.

There are lots of examples of very well thought of and highly ranked golf courses (many mentioned in this thread) where a critical mass of people are OK with the housing components to still consider them great.

No doubt thou, some of the worst courses I've played are "housing courses" and there are no shortage of awful examples out there as well.

[Joe_Tucholski]

What would be the best course where a guy and his good buds might pick up some distressed homes and spruce up the neighborhood?

Could have bought this one on Rae's Creek for 230k just a couple years ago.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2521-Tupelo-Dr-Augusta-GA-30909/14942435_zpid/


The membership would be a tough ticket.

[Ken Moum]

North Berwick (West) has an impressive array. Also LACC, but have never been there.

Including:

[Mike_Young]

I honestly thought I could find an affordable house on Ardmore Ave overlooking the course. The home prices around Merion surprised me. Now if you want an inexpensive clean house on a fine course look no further than Norwood Hills.


I had mentioned gentrification earlier today. What would be the best course where a guy and his good buds might pick up some distressed homes and spruce up the neighborhood?

I keep hearing that Harbortown is a good deal when it comes to homes that can be bought and fixed...all of the homes there are dated and seems they have just worn out when it comes to the condos etc...many of the condos of that era had the same look and are ready for fixer uppers...

[Cal Seifert]

If i recall correctly harbour town was mostly homes on all of the holes except the right side of 18 which were condos.

[Tom_Doak]

If i recall correctly harbour town was mostly homes on all of the holes except the right side of 18 which were condos.

That's right, and a good call . . . Harbour Town is probably the best course in America with houses both sides of the holes.


It was actually routed by George Cobb for Sea Pines Plantation, before they hired Dye and Nicklaus to try and make it something special.  Pete said it was too late to change any of the development plan . . . about the only hole he could really change was #18.  I think that big blob of fairway that sticks out into the marsh for the landing area was all fill, if I understood him correctly.


Long Cove also has homes on both sides of many fairways, but not on the holes that run up against the big berm on the front nine, which help give it some character.  The corridors for the golf holes there are 100 feet wider than at Harbour Town, though, so they could make the holes wide enough and still save some trees within the golf course property to buffer the homes.

[BCrosby]

Joe Lee, Atlanta Journal, August 8, 1975.


"You build a golf course to fit the land that's left after the lots have been laid out."


A refreshingly honest take. The above is from an interview done when Lee was in town designing several 'development' courses in the Atlanta suburbs. I was surprised to learn how many courses he had worked on here. He (and his partner Rocky Roquemore) seemed to be everywhere in the '70's.


The quote above is probably unfair the Lee. He goes on to note that he likes 'flexible holes" (read: wide hole corridors) that make you think and other Golden Age axioms, but he also understood that he had not been hired to design Golden Age courses.


Bob 

[JWinick]

Tom,


My parents club in Florida is a golf course community, but all the homes are nearly all on the other side of a creek that runs through the property, so they are generally a good 50 yards or so from the hole.   Are there any guidelines that you think is appropriate that allow the developer to make money but not detract from the golf course experience?


Best,
Jon

If i recall correctly harbour town was mostly homes on all of the holes except the right side of 18 which were condos.

That's right, and a good call . . . Harbour Town is probably the best course in America with houses both sides of the holes.


It was actually routed by George Cobb for Sea Pines Plantation, before they hired Dye and Nicklaus to try and make it something special.  Pete said it was too late to change any of the development plan . . . about the only hole he could really change was #18.  I think that big blob of fairway that sticks out into the marsh for the landing area was all fill, if I understood him correctly.


Long Cove also has homes on both sides of many fairways, but not on the holes that run up against the big berm on the front nine, which help give it some character.  The corridors for the golf holes there are 100 feet wider than at Harbour Town, though, so they could make the holes wide enough and still save some trees within the golf course property to buffer the homes.

[MClutterbuck]

Pasatiempo comes to mind as one and the Merion.  But I can agree with you when it comes to developments where homes were on both sides of each hole on the course.  However, there are plenty of really good and even great courses where the course is a "core" and the perimeter has homes.

Homes on just on side of each fairway, relatively large plots, and, terrain permitting, all houses on the high side of each fw results in homes with privacy in their yards, great views from the homes and from fairways, less safety problems.

[MClutterbuck]

I would need to see it now that it is more developed, but Santa Lucia Preserve is a great example of housing not ruining a golf course.

[Thomas Dai]

I seem to recall reading, not quite sure where, that the original intent was for there to be some kind of residential element at Huntercombe.
Atb

[Jim_Coleman]

JK:  One can buy a home bordering Merion today on the right side of 7 and 8 in the $700K's, not bad in this day and age.  To put it in context, my first house was on Haverford Rd., to the right of the 13th green on the other side of the tracks (literally and figuratively).  I paid $60K in 1977.  My kids sneaked (snuck?) on to sled.

[JESII]

Which hole? 11 fairway?


Any ever venture up to the 10th tee?

[Buck Wolter]

Anthem in Cave Creek AZ was horrible -- I don't know how many houses my son hit that day. Angled fairways with houses right on top. I think we left after 12 -- he had PTSD. I measured less than 100 ft from fairway to house in one spot.


https://www.bing.com/maps?q=anthem%20cc%20az&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=anthem%20cc%20az&sc=4-12&sk=&cvid=E64007100A29484D9DDCA55202312E97


Alternatively we played Gainey Ranch that same week and  it was very playable and a lot of fun -- houses on one side versus both.


https://www.bing.com/maps?q=gainety+ranch+golf&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnews=1&rec_search=1&plvar=0&refig=21f94cccbc864865a4de17b0e363815c&PC=HCTS&sp=-1&pq=gainety+ranch+golf&sc=8-18&qs=n&sk=&cvid=21f94cccbc864865a4de17b0e363815c

[Jim_Coleman]

Jim: My son broke his nose sledding down the 10th tee, known as 1,000 steps.  The other popular spot was behind 12 green, known as devil’s dip.

[Sean_A]

I don't think I have ever played a true housing course and thought the houses made the course more attractive. Some of the best I have seen are St George's Hill, Yeamans Hall, Little Aston, Roaring Gap and Hope Valley.

Ciao

[mike_beene]

Courses with holes with houses on both sides that have hosted majors: Pebble, Oak Tree, Pine Needles... Any more?

[Bill Gayne]

It struck me today that I can't consider any golf course surrounded by homes to be truly a great golf course.    Is that fair?   I have nothing against golf course communities (I think they are often awesome), but the quality of the golf experience suffers when you're surrounded by houses. 


I find this to be especially true when its the $400K (ok now $320K) homes that surround many of the golf courses in the Phoenix area.   The houses around Troon North are really cool, so it didn't bother me as much there.

I think probably half the great links courses in the UK have a caravan park next door and the quality of the golf experience doesn't suffer.

[Tim Martin]

I don't think I have ever played a true housing course and thought the houses made the course more attractive. Some of the best I have seen are St George's Hill, Yeamans Hall, Little Aston, Roaring Gap and Hope Valley.

Ciao

Sean-I had a play cancelled at Hope Valley because of bad weather earlier in the year. How did you like it?

[Tim Gavrich]

Mountain Lake is pretty darn good as far as courses in planned communities go. So is Sedgefield.


I wish we'd see more New Urbanist golf communities pop up. Windsor here in Vero Beach is really cool in terms of the community layout: dense in the main village center, with several dozen more houses around the perimeter of the property. It does feel like playing in people's backyards, but it's more of a shared backyard. I like it.


Another fascinating residential community in which I've played golf is Brays Island. Its very low density means that homes, even when visible, are far more removed from play. I've never seen more open space around golf holes in a community course than at Brays.


The most claustrophobic residential course of any sort of note that I've played is Orange Tree in Orlando. Almost unbearably tight on several holes.

[John McCarthy]

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3055-Sheffield-Cir-Olympia-Fields-IL-60461/4306735_zpid/


Overlooks Olympia Fields South, indoor pool, 5,500 square feet.  $242 k, may need a lil Chip and Joanna love, tho.