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ChipRoyce

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What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« on: April 03, 2020, 01:09:22 PM »
These are fairway bunkers at a prestigious course in the South East that has had multiple restoration efforts over the past 20 years.




Before I chime in with my own opinion, I'm curious what other reactions they elicit by those in the treehouse?




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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 01:13:09 PM »
Do you have a picture taken from the tee or fairway?
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ChipRoyce

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 01:18:10 PM »
Hi Tommy, sorry, this is the only picture I have.
I came across it, of all places, from a Real Estate website. 
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Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2020, 01:20:39 PM »
Not a big fan of concrete bunkers.
They are slippery in the morning dew and really leave marks on your clubs...


 ;D ;D ;D
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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2020, 03:48:32 PM »
1. Flat, featureless site
2. Minimal budget
3. Did what they could whilst giving the masses what they expect to see
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Adrian_Stiff

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2020, 04:10:05 PM »
I think they are okay.
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ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2020, 04:33:29 PM »
Quote from: Greg Tallman on April 03, 2020, 03:48:32 PM
1. Flat, featureless site
2. Minimal budget
  • Yes, flat, somewhat featureless (the course seems to have some elevation movement, but this hole is very flat
  • $5MM restoration
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 04:35:45 PM by ChipRoyce »
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Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2020, 04:37:41 PM »
I don’t care for the bunker edging, especially when in contrast to the very flat fairway.  Looks way too manufactured and unnatural.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2020, 04:57:11 PM »
Put me in the camp of one who loves the look...even thou they are obviously man made. If its a restoration, i'm guessing its a fairly old course when this was the in-style.  I view this in similar terms to a Seth Raynor course or older greens that used to be surrounded by chocolate drop mounds.  Awesome!!
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Mark_Fine

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2020, 05:35:47 PM »
Forced and artificial but really hate to judge something by a photograph. 
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2020, 05:54:40 PM »

I like the look but my eye wonders about a few details -


Some banks are brownish others adjacent are green.  Or is it steep slope, soil, sun,  or could design have mitigated that problem (if they think it is a problem, or it this is just a seasonal effect)


Even the outside banks of the support mounds have brownish patches, and appear too steep to machine mow.  Was this necessary to achieve the look?  I measured off the photo (may not be accurate) and got 38% slope on some of those banks.  33% is the most conventional mowers can handle, so did they feel that the extra 5% steepness was worth some maintenance hassle?


While I can't tell from the photo, the bunker bottom is flat. Tilting that whole base up at 2-4% towards the tee would probably make it more visible off the tee, but like Mark, I am only wondering, not proclaiming based on one photo from a different angle.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2020, 06:10:22 PM »
I was going to yawn, until I heard they were part of a $5m project.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2020, 07:20:34 PM »
Well, one thing is clear.
Any judgements being passed here are clearly on the aesthetic, cause I can't see how anyone could opine on their strategy or placement.
I've seen plenty of clearly artificial features on courses that I really like. Kington or Sothampton would be classic examples of that.


But this seems like a really unfair way to judge any bunkers..
Besides, maybe the $5mm included the three houses


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Greg Tallman

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2020, 07:29:55 PM »
Jeff, doesn’t seem unfair at all given what this site is all about. The question seems obvious... what do you think of these completely manufactured bunkers on otherwise featureless terrain.


I’m with TD... whatever but if these are the result of a $5 million dollar renovation then:
1. Perhaps money would have been better used elsewhere
2. Sufficient budget existed to create these without the harsh opposition to the land AND OBVIOUS LONG TERM MAINTENANCE COST IMPLICATIONS
3. Tell me more about the renovation
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Sean_A

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2020, 07:30:54 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on April 03, 2020, 07:20:34 PM
Well, one thing is clear.
Any judgements being passed here are clearly on the aesthetic, cause I can't see how anyone could opine on their strategy or placement.
I've seen plenty of clearly artificial features on courses that I really like. Kington or Sothampton would be classic examples of that.

But this seems like a really unfair way to judge any bunkers..
Besides, maybe the $5mm included the three houses

Cha ching. You can't ebven really tell what the bunkers look like from the proper angle. 

I am very suspect of big bunker renos without concurrent grass line aterations, tree removal and often times drainage work. Need more info.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 08:08:48 PM by Sean_A »
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Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 07:32:21 PM »
I get it now, sorry.


My "reaction" when I see the bunker..?..:


1. Dont go in it.
2. If in it, I am not afraid.
3. If in it, choke up on my iron, soft hands, put ball back in stance just a bit.
4. No tension.
5. Take one more club than normal yardage.
6. Make clean contact with the ball FIRST.


Hopefully have two putts for par.
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Mark_Fine

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2020, 10:01:51 PM »
As I said, as did others, not really fair to judge a course by a photograph, especially just one photograph from an awkward angle.  But $5MM, wow!  I wish I had those kind of budgets for a bunker project.  I would end up donating the far majority of it to charity because it is crazy to spend that much on bunkers at ANY golf course  ;)
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Kevin_Reilly

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2020, 11:22:30 PM »
It was a $5 million total project, supposedly.  Not a $5 million bunker project.


I am amazed that anyone would think that $5 million was spent on bunkers.
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Peter Flory

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 11:53:53 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on April 03, 2020, 11:22:30 PM
It was a $5 million total project, supposedly.  Not a $5 million bunker project.

I am amazed that anyone would think that $5 million was spent on bunkers.

I figured that it was spent on the 2 bunkers in the photo. 
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JESII

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2020, 12:50:05 AM »
I figure this post is a railroad job...what else could it be?
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Jeff Schley

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2020, 01:18:41 AM »
AT 5million I was thinking this was the before picture? ;)
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John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2020, 02:46:01 AM »
..... they forgot to put a steep camber on the cart path to sling the ball round the bunker .....
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ChipRoyce

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2020, 08:44:05 AM »
So the course in question is Cape Fear Country Club of Wilmington NC. Club founded in 1896 and I believe the course was designed / redesigned by Donald Ross (hosted Donald Ross Society outing in 2008).
Kris Spence did a renovation/restoration back in 2006.

Andrew Green did the most recent work, just completed, which redid the bunkers and greensites. Article detailing the $5MM project:
https://www.starnewsonline.com/sports/20190925/mull-again-golf-at-cape-fear-country-club-returns
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2020, 09:24:00 AM »

Yeah, my last bid for re-building worked out to about $6 per SF, and in the last few years, depending on region, I think prices could be $8-9 SF, depending on liner, amount of drainage, sand cost (that white sand can cost up to $130 per ton) etc.  To spend $5,000,000 on bunkers would be impossible (over 500,000 sf when small bunkers like those, typically placed could be as low as 50,000 SF and probably not over 100,000 SF on any traditional course.


And these days, the $5Mil for greens, tees and bunkers sounds about right.
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Mark_Fine

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Re: What's your reaction when you see these bunkers?
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2020, 09:29:13 AM »
Jeff,
I agree but $5MM for the entire project is still on the high side.  Obviously it all depends on the project scope.  Forgetting cost, it is still hard to judge those bunkers with one photo.
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